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Is Canada heaven or hell? Why most immigrants return?

Is Canada heaven or hell? Why most immigrants return?

Old Jan 22nd 2003, 2:56 am
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Default Re: Is Canada heaven or hell? Why most immigrants return?

Hi there

I think your friends are a bunch of losers, or maybe they are not qualified to get the job they are looking for. You can not judge the whole country Canada is, only from those experiences. Canada has many cities and many opportunities. You have to be proactive and go look for them. Not just sit down scratching your balls to see if they appear in your computer screen. Then why is Canada one of the best countries where to live?. The IT market is one of hundreds of markets, if it is bad, I am sorry but you can not call Canada "Hell" just because of that. Go to Africa, Afghanistan or Haiti, then you´ll know what hell is.

Regards

Originally posted by sbasak
Hi

I'm thinking of immigrating to Canada. However, the story of some of my friends who already immigrated to Canada (and returned too) horrifies me! So, I'm beginning to wonder whether Canada is heaven or hell!

First let me tell you about myself. I'm an Indian citizen working in a large software consultancy firm in India for 2.5 years. Currenty I'm working in its UK branch with £1400 salary (per month, after all tax deductions). I calculated my points under new system and found to score over 75.

Now I'm thinking of immigating to Canada. However, my friends/relatives who already immigrated there discourgages to come to Canada!

The reasons are:

1. Canada's economy is poor compared to USA and most western European countries.
2. Getting a well paid job is very very difficult. I recently read an article which says than many engineers are driving taxis in Toronto!
3. Most of the time immigrants are forced to take up employment in a much worse position what they used to do in their own countries!
4. Unless one have a Canadian degree, employers refuse to give a decent job.
5. Information Technology boom is not there any more. IT jobs are not plenty now!
6. Canada is taking so much immigrants every year because the same number of people are also getting out of the country each after being frustrated not getting a good job after years of searching!
7. To get a good job, one needs to study in a Canadian university, but that is costly. Unless one gets enough paying jobs, he can't afford going to university. However, none gives job without Canadian degree - so it's a deadlock situation.
8. I personally knew at least 10 people, who immigrated to Canada and 7 out of them returned to their home after 1-2 year and the rest though staying there but say because they have no alternative.
9. I've been advised by many people that even if I like to immigrate to Canada, I should land there only and only if I have a good job offer at hand. They say that situation becomes pathetic when they can't get a job in 6 months and all their savings comes down to zero. Then they literally have lead a life like beggars and forced to take up extremely low wage employment (in most cases works like factory worker, pizza delivery boys, sales counter personnel etc.)

Now you people tell me is Canada so bad or there is still hope? As an IT professional with 3-3.5 years experience can I expect more than C$3500 pm salary (after tax) there?

Thanx to all who reply (or even read this post).

:-(
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Old Jan 28th 2003, 4:10 pm
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sbasak

Why do you consider Canada at all? Are you just looking to get rich? If so, very few countries will want you.

Countries want immigrants who will work hard and become a part of the social fabric, and the better countries will do their best to provide an economy which makes it easy to get some work.

I have a BSc in Chemistry and seven years in IT but I have no illusions about how tough it will be to get work. Why do I want to come to Canada?

1. My girlfriend is Canadian and she has better career prospects than if she came to Ireland
2. I have visited Canada and it strikes me as the US with better spelling and metric
3. The welcome I have found from people I have met.

Visit Canada and decide whether you want to put in the hard work involved in making a life for yourself and becoming a contributor to Canadian society, then decide. Canada, however, does not owe you anything - we must all prove our worth.
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Old Jan 29th 2003, 10:55 pm
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Default Re: Is Canada heaven or hell? Why most immigrants return?

"I'm beginning to wonder whether Canada is heaven or hell!"

If it is hell, why has it been consistently voted the best country in the world by the UN?

"Canada's economy is poor compared to USA and most western European countries."

Not true. Canada's economy has been in high gear for years and is currently outstipping the US. Canada's cost of living is also low compared to a lot of Western countries.

"Unless one have a Canadian degree, employers refuse to give a decent job."

True only to a certain extent by why shouldn't it be.

"Canada is taking so much immigrants every year because the same number of people are also getting out of the country each after being frustrated not getting a good job after years of searching!"

Again, not true. Where's the proof? This is just a throw-away statement.

"To get a good job, one needs to study in a Canadian university..."

I do the work normally done by someone with a Ph.D., but all I have is a two-year college diploma in Chemical Technology (1991). There are still lots of opportunities over here (especially out West) if you can merely proove (or demonstate) that you can do the job.

35 years ago, I got a job in the oil patch as a technical assistant. I had tremendous responsibilities. My qualifications? None whatsoever. At least not in any technical sense. I was a fitter/machinist for heaven's sake - 22 years old and as and green as grass to boot!

Last example: My wife works for a natural gas company and earns more than me. She is on $65,000 per year plus bonuses. Her qualifications: Grade 12 High School.

This is still the land of opportunity and I gaurantee that there are not many countries in the world where you can get on so well without all the qualifications you would need in other developed countries.

Show some initiative. "Go West young man."

Last edited by TimEh?; Jan 30th 2003 at 7:01 pm.
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Old Jan 30th 2003, 2:12 pm
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Well, lots of interesting replies coming now!

Let me state a one line joke.

There are 3 kinds of lies - Lie, Great Lie and Statistics!

Canada is getting "best place to live" ranking by UN doesn't mean ANYTHING. Also Canadian economy is performing better that USA similarly misleading.

You can hardly enjoy the natural beauty of Canada unless you have a well paid stable job. (It's my personal opinion - I don't know how many people will agree with it) This is true for anywhere you live.

The main point I wanted to stress out that before going to Canada most people have a very rosy picture of that place (especially when people from Asia/Africa visit there for the first time as foreign country). But after that they discover that expectation doesn't match with reality. Then they become frustrated which is quite natural.

Don't think that I'm asking people not to immigrate to Canada. In fact I myself asked people's opinion about the overall situation in Canada.

It's a fact that lots of immigrants are coming out of Canada every year. I got this information from one of Canada's official website (I can't remember the location). Otherwise why do they take so many immigrants every year while the existing immigrants don't find suitable jobs??

While considering for immigration, CIC accepts all non-canadian qualifications counting towards points to score 75 marks. However, while searching for jobs there, employers seek Canadian degree - why is this dual policy?

It's true that Canada is cheaper than many European countries but salaries in Canada are also lower compared to these places. So, the earning/expense ratio probably almost remains same. (Again I didn't do any research on this, it appeared to me from Canadian job sites).

Bye :-0
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Old Jan 30th 2003, 6:48 pm
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Support it with facts. Having lived both in UK and Canada I can absolutely guarantee you that even if you make "less" money in Canada you have a whole lot more to spend vs. the U.K. I would love someone to prove otherwise.
Skilled workers class vs. employers requiring Canadian education and experience a "dual" policy? I don't think business and government policies are ever the same, but perhaps I am wrong. In the business I manage it is not a policy not to accept foreign credentials, however keep in mind that when we do hire someone the education and experience is very important and we do check the validity. We do know what the Canadian programs offer, we can get references, etc. The unfortunate reality is that most employers do not know the foreign credentials and why would they go through the time and cost to take an increased risk? This has nothing to do with the gov't policy of skilled workers. Working in Canada is different than many other countries -- policies, laws, cultures, etc. If you were an employer would you take the risk --- if it is easily avoided?

Lastly, looking for jobs in Canada must be different than other countries. Here, mailing in a poorly worded and inappopriate resume is not considered much of an effort and usually hits the bin. If it works elsewhere then great, but it takes more than that here.

I still find it hilarious that people will compare immigrating to Canada vs. the U.S. As I said before, then go to the U.S. (good luck). I haven't been in school for quite some time but they used to be different countries. Why not immigrate to Japan or Brazil or Italy or South Africa?

By the way, net immigration is way up in Canada -- look at the stats which are available in a host of websites.

I have now vented. Thanks.
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Old Feb 6th 2003, 4:10 pm
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Please have a look at following threads and then you'll learn the real situation in Canada.... not very different from hell :-(

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary
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Old Feb 6th 2003, 4:27 pm
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Originally posted by sbasak
Please have a look at following threads and then you'll learn the real situation in Canada.... not very different from hell :-(

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=salary
I clicked on the first URL and started reading the responses. Most of them seem to support the position that "yuh gotta pay yer dues." I came to Canada, aged 21, with a little girl and a pregnant 18-year old wife. I had 50 pounds in my pocket and no job to come to. I worked for 23 years in various heavy industries as a tradesman, went back to College (to get Canadian qualifications) and now work as a consultant in regulatory affairs.

Do you want it all handed to you on a plate? Mate.
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Old Feb 6th 2003, 6:07 pm
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For God's sake then go home. I am sure everyone will have a job waiting for them in their home country because their skills and education are so great and recognized. If you are not working in Canada then it should be easy to go back from a cost perspective as in no time at all you will be making the huge dollars back where they appreciate your skills.

Why is there this attitude that just because people decide to come here there is going to be a handout for them. Life isn't fair -- get over it. Funny how when someone can make it work they are labeled as being just "lucky". Maybe these people make their own luck.

Whinging and complaining is not going to help anyone or change anything. Do something about it instead. Or, go back to the wonderful place you came from and let us Canadians "suffer" in peace.
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Old Feb 7th 2003, 12:28 pm
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Well, no offence attached to anyone, but I would like to argue on following points-

* To qualify as an immigrant under new rule, one has to be highly qualified with very good experience in his profession. Now, tell me a good reason why such a qualified person should start from the bottom line in Canada?

* "Canadian employers can't trust foreign degrees!"
Why??? The immigrant's degree is verified by CIC before immigration. So, they can't trust the authenticity of the degree situation shouldn't arise!

* "There are lots of job opportunities in Canada".
Accepted. Tell me one good reason why should a doctor or PhD drive taxi or deliver pizza in Canada??? There are lots of people around the world who are happy to drive taxis in Canada and want to live there forever. But they can't qualify because they don't score 75 points! Why Canada is unwilling to accept them???

Do they want that university degree holders drive taxis or deliver pizzas in Canada???

* It is a REAL FACT that majority of immigrants say that they were much better of in their home country! [just compare number of success posts with that of failure posts in this forum].

* This website is doing a GREAT service to prospective immigrants! Of course whether to immigrate or not is an individual decision. But now everyone understands that the situation is not at all nice there.

Again, I'm not arguing what is right or wrong. I'm trying to see only what people say about the real situation.

Thanx.
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Old Feb 7th 2003, 10:48 pm
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Default Why taking in highly qualified immigrants but not giving them good jobs?

It's the Canada Immigration's responsibility to make sure they take in the most qualified immigrants it can, with no obligation to make sure these people they take in will get good jobs, or even get employed. However it's to the local businesses’ best interest to hire people with qualifications/degrees they are comfortable with, and they have no obligation to give preference to immigrants instead of someone with local degrees/experiences. I think that's why highly qualified immigrants might find it difficult to find good jobs.

I'm not saying who's right or wrong. But wouldn't you be selective and only take the "best" immigrants if you were a Canadian Immigration officer? You might hope that these people you've taken in would make a good living in Canada, but who gets hired is totally up to the local businesses and their business needs.

I came to Canada 8 years ago with university degree. Couldn't find any jobs for a while. I was so new I can't even get around town, or know how the system works. How could I blame anyone for not hiring me? Then I settled for a job where I was force to work every Saturday without being paid overtime. I hung in there for 6 month, so at least I have "Canadian experience" on my resume that eventually helped me to land a much better job. After one years, I applied to work for a company (it's now one of the "top 10 Canadian companies to work for") because I was ready and confident in myself. My ethnic background, which seemed to be one of the job-hunting roadblock, had actually helped me to land the job since they need someone who speaks English and Chinese. My other Chinese friends were so jealous and regretted that they didn't take my advise to aim for the best companies when the job opportunities were there, simply because they didn't think "big companies" would ever want them.

Good luck for anyone who decides to come to Canada, or is already in Canada. Hang in there and realize that you have your future in your own hands. It's no use to expect Canadian immigration to land you a nice job, you have to do it yourself.
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Old Feb 8th 2003, 10:07 am
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All of you have logic in your points. However, I think that CHC should at least warn prospective immigrants about the reality in Canada rather than painting a rosy picture in everyone's mind.

Also, majority of immigrants who qualify under new system, are usually highly educated with well paid job in their homeland. They obviously don't want to start from scratch if they don't get even moderate level job or money. Otherwise why should people go to Canada?

Government usually decides immigration policy after a considering economic condition of the country. There should be some understanding between CIC's policy and reality in Canada.

I live in UK and had to visit Canada several times on business purpose. It's true that Canada is a wonderful country but I never thought of immigrating there as I don't dare to quit my present job which is quite secure and well paid. So, why should I take the risk? If I want to enjoy the beauty of Canada, I can always visit there and spend a few days... Whenever I visited Canada I've seen that indeed the situation is pathetic for majority of immigrants [not just Asians but Europeans as well]. It's not just Asians face "No Canadian Experience" problem but Europeans also do face the same thing.... so, I can very well feel the frustration of most immigrants.

Good luck to all...
 
Old Feb 9th 2003, 5:43 am
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Default Re: Why taking in highly qualified immigrants but not giving them good jobs?

Originally posted by SSJ
It's the Canada Immigration's responsibility to make sure they take in the most qualified immigrants it can, with no obligation to make sure these people they take in will get good jobs, or even get employed. However it's to the local businesses’ best interest to hire people with qualifications/degrees they are comfortable with, and they have no obligation to give preference to immigrants instead of someone with local degrees/experiences. I think that's why highly qualified immigrants might find it difficult to find good jobs.

I'm not saying who's right or wrong. But wouldn't you be selective and only take the "best" immigrants if you were a Canadian Immigration officer? You might hope that these people you've taken in would make a good living in Canada, but who gets hired is totally up to the local businesses and their business needs.

I came to Canada 8 years ago with university degree. Couldn't find any jobs for a while. I was so new I can't even get around town, or know how the system works. How could I blame anyone for not hiring me? Then I settled for a job where I was force to work every Saturday without being paid overtime. I hung in there for 6 month, so at least I have "Canadian experience" on my resume that eventually helped me to land a much better job. After one years, I applied to work for a company (it's now one of the "top 10 Canadian companies to work for") because I was ready and confident in myself. My ethnic background, which seemed to be one of the job-hunting roadblock, had actually helped me to land the job since they need someone who speaks English and Chinese. My other Chinese friends were so jealous and regretted that they didn't take my advise to aim for the best companies when the job opportunities were there, simply because they didn't think "big companies" would ever want them.

Good luck for anyone who decides to come to Canada, or is already in Canada. Hang in there and realize that you have your future in your own hands. It's no use to expect Canadian immigration to land you a nice job, you have to do it yourself.
I came to Canada during the "boom" years. The "No Canadian Experience" was never an issue. I was always able to land a job in my field (Accounting). Just recently, I was laid off from my job and ironically, now that I have lots of "Canadian experience" I cannot find a job. I guess what I'm trying to say is there are no jobs in Canada right now whether you have Canadian work experience or not. The Canadian economy is too small to be able to give jobs to everybody.
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Old Feb 17th 2003, 5:46 pm
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Exclamation Re: Is Canada heaven or hell? Why most immigrants return?

I am a Canadian, have lived here all my life (27 years) and for a short time (3years) lived in Nova Scotia. since coming back to Ontario I have had endless issues with just recieving the services that my taxes not only pay for but that I deserve as a Canadian Citizen (such as health coverage - apparently I am in the wrong category, as per the Health Ministers office).

The employment stats that they produce are anything but accurate; of all my friends/family, not one is working at the level they are accustomed to via education or years and years of experience. I am writting this entry on an employment centre computer, and the irony is, I have spent more time here than actually working!!

When employment is found, it is either expected that you obsorb far more responsability than you were hired for and for no extra pay, or you are expected to be abused by insecure and underqualified management, or, now here is the real kicker, you are expected to be a co-workers assault victim (which i have been subject to many times, at various companies, mainly harrassment and threats to my well being).

My recommendation to anyone thinking about joining the workforce in Ontario in particular - dont. As wonderful and beautiful my home city (Toronto) is, the employment situation is in disrepair. Between the older sector of the work force being afraid to give younger people a chance at having an actual start in case their jobs are removed, to the government and thier cut-backs and over taxation, its just not worth it. I am actively looking for employment elsewhere (which is to say either in British Columbia for a short time, maybe a year then out of Canada, OR, to the UK or USA right away). I dont expect anywhere to be better than here, so my expectations cannot be destroyed as easily (and possibly it may even be better, meaning there are actual, maybe even decent, jobs to be had).

Come to Canada, it is a gorgeous country to see and to experience, but think hard and seriously about wheather or not you want to stay for good. Keep your options of re-relocating open, you may find you need them to be there.

Good luck though, esspecially if you finally decide to come to Canada.

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Old Feb 26th 2003, 8:20 pm
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It seems most (skilled worker) immigrants think a job is granted because of their education. They (specially IT guys) have lived the good live in their home country, and forgot what it is to just make a decent living by working instead of overcharging and keeping a dream alive.

Yes, I am one of the so called idiots who is planning to move to Canada. When you do immigrate, you have to realise the fact not one Canadian is waiting for you. They will see you as a treath for their employment, as all native employees in their home country will do. You're on your own out there. If you think otherwise, wake up...

No way I will get 75 points. Fortunately I've had a business for 8 years here in Holland wich gives me the possibility to move as entrepreneur. Work hard, be realistic, believe in yourself and be prepaired to step down from your used standards . Then you will make it.

Regards, Erik
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Old Feb 28th 2003, 11:43 pm
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I don't want to start a war here but I'm one those 'IT' guys who has emigrated to Canada. We're no different from anyone else - we just happen to be in an industry which in some countries there is a demand. This demand forces up market rates - just market forces at work - something an entrepreneur should understand.

I don't think any IT guy with an ounce of common sense would move to a new country expecting them to welcome them with open arms.

Do you have an axe to grind ???

Cheers - Steve

Originally posted by Erik
It seems most (skilled worker) immigrants think a job is granted because of their education. They (specially IT guys) have lived the good live in their home country, and forgot what it is to just make a decent living by working instead of overcharging and keeping a dream alive.

Yes, I am one of the so called idiots who is planning to move to Canada. When you do immigrate, you have to realise the fact not one Canadian is waiting for you. They will see you as a treath for their employment, as all native employees in their home country will do. You're on your own out there. If you think otherwise, wake up...

No way I will get 75 points. Fortunately I've had a business for 8 years here in Holland wich gives me the possibility to move as entrepreneur. Work hard, be realistic, believe in yourself and be prepaired to step down from your used standards . Then you will make it.

Regards, Erik
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