Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Jun 4th 2009, 12:58 pm
#31
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 38
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
lol @ "Tetley" 
It's great to read everyones feedback, and I thank you all very much.
We know it's not going to be easy - but we're determined, hard working, and can only hope for the best! So we'll get there eventually.
We certainly won't be able to afford a house in Canada without us both working very hard - as anywhere else in the world.
We have to start somewhere, and why not Canada?
Thanks again.
It's great to read everyones feedback, and I thank you all very much.
We know it's not going to be easy - but we're determined, hard working, and can only hope for the best! So we'll get there eventually.
We certainly won't be able to afford a house in Canada without us both working very hard - as anywhere else in the world.
We have to start somewhere, and why not Canada?
Thanks again.
Jun 4th 2009, 12:59 pm
#32
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Your costs as far as they go are pretty close (I dont know toronto rents though)
You have nothing for public transport for the person without the car...the chances of two jobs both being conveniently located with matching hours are slim.
You have nothing for car expenses and replacement...Canada is tough on cars. My old car averages probably $1000 a year in running repairs, My new one costs $200 for a basic filter change service, but costs me $300 a month for the lease.
You have absolutely nothing for savings, life insurance, RETIREMENT PLANNING, emergency contingency, Vacations, Travel, MEDICAL expenses (Drugs, dental etc)...
No budget for clothing?
Im assuming you dont want cable / satelite TV and will be OK with over the air programming.
My main concern though is that your entire budget is based on two people working full 40 hr weeks 52 weeks a year. That is extremely unlikely at present.
Also the kind of jobs that pay minimum wage are the kind where you dont get health care benefits to cover prescription costs and dental, and your holidays are paid for from a percentage of your weekly pay put away, so in effect you only get 50 weeks paid anyway.
Its way too close for my comfort. People get by on it I realise, but I certainly wouldnt choose to enter that life, and I dont think those that get by on minimum wage would recomend it either. You need to be working in the grey economy as dbd suggested. Its certainly no place to be hoping to raise kids without family to help out (both financially and with free childcare) in this country.
You have nothing for public transport for the person without the car...the chances of two jobs both being conveniently located with matching hours are slim.
You have nothing for car expenses and replacement...Canada is tough on cars. My old car averages probably $1000 a year in running repairs, My new one costs $200 for a basic filter change service, but costs me $300 a month for the lease.
You have absolutely nothing for savings, life insurance, RETIREMENT PLANNING, emergency contingency, Vacations, Travel, MEDICAL expenses (Drugs, dental etc)...
No budget for clothing?
Im assuming you dont want cable / satelite TV and will be OK with over the air programming.
My main concern though is that your entire budget is based on two people working full 40 hr weeks 52 weeks a year. That is extremely unlikely at present.
Also the kind of jobs that pay minimum wage are the kind where you dont get health care benefits to cover prescription costs and dental, and your holidays are paid for from a percentage of your weekly pay put away, so in effect you only get 50 weeks paid anyway.
Its way too close for my comfort. People get by on it I realise, but I certainly wouldnt choose to enter that life, and I dont think those that get by on minimum wage would recomend it either. You need to be working in the grey economy as dbd suggested. Its certainly no place to be hoping to raise kids without family to help out (both financially and with free childcare) in this country.
Last edited by iaink; Jun 4th 2009 at 3:25 pm.
Jun 4th 2009, 1:00 pm
#33
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Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Jun 4th 2009, 1:43 pm
#36
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,054
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Jun 4th 2009, 2:03 pm
#37
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
The obligation would be on the sponsor, the sponsored spouse is assumed to have nothing. Anyway, see above, the sponsor signs an undertaking to support to spouse but doesn't have to be able to do so.
Jun 4th 2009, 2:25 pm
#38
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 38
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Do not reply in that tone to me; I am not an idiot.
I presume that your reason for living in Canada was driven by the fact that you could afford to live there and not, as most people, the desire for a more financially secure life. All the things that you brought up, are to me objectives that in my current location do not exist for the vast majority of working people and never will. As well as lacking social skills when conversing in a civilized manner on the internet, you obviously lack a grasp on how the vast majority of people live, not only in Canada, but the rest of the world as well.
You do not know me, nor do you know my husband and our work ethics. We will make it succeed. And of course the other factor that you are forgetting is that my husband was born in Canada and it's his god given right to live in his own country with his soul mate.
There are millions of unskilled Canadian couples that are working dead end jobs (without benefits) in order to make ends meat. Every time you go out your front door, without realising it, you will see the effect these individuals have on Canadian society; clean streets, stocked shelves, empty trash cans, and agricultural produce on your table, to mention just a very few.
These people don't necessarily aspire to emulate your standard of living but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy or a drain on society.
I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and my husband works weekends, so give me a break.
I presume that your reason for living in Canada was driven by the fact that you could afford to live there and not, as most people, the desire for a more financially secure life. All the things that you brought up, are to me objectives that in my current location do not exist for the vast majority of working people and never will. As well as lacking social skills when conversing in a civilized manner on the internet, you obviously lack a grasp on how the vast majority of people live, not only in Canada, but the rest of the world as well.
You do not know me, nor do you know my husband and our work ethics. We will make it succeed. And of course the other factor that you are forgetting is that my husband was born in Canada and it's his god given right to live in his own country with his soul mate.
There are millions of unskilled Canadian couples that are working dead end jobs (without benefits) in order to make ends meat. Every time you go out your front door, without realising it, you will see the effect these individuals have on Canadian society; clean streets, stocked shelves, empty trash cans, and agricultural produce on your table, to mention just a very few.
These people don't necessarily aspire to emulate your standard of living but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy or a drain on society.
I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and my husband works weekends, so give me a break.
Jun 4th 2009, 2:38 pm
#39
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Do not reply in that tone to me; I am not an idiot.
I presume that your reason for living in Canada was driven by the fact that you could afford to live there and not, as most people, the desire for a more financially secure life. All the things that you brought up, are to me objectives that in my current location do not exist for the vast majority of working people and never will. As well as lacking social skills when conversing in a civilized manner on the internet, you obviously lack a grasp on how the vast majority of people live, not only in Canada, but the rest of the world as well.
You do not know me, nor do you know my husband and our work ethics. We will make it succeed. And of course the other factor that you are forgetting is that my husband was born in Canada and it's his god given right to live in his own country with his soul mate.
There are millions of unskilled Canadian couples that are working dead end jobs (without benefits) in order to make ends meat. Every time you go out your front door, without realising it, you will see the effect these individuals have on Canadian society; clean streets, stocked shelves, empty trash cans, and agricultural produce on your table, to mention just a very few.
These people don't necessarily aspire to emulate your standard of living but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy or a drain on society.
I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and my husband works weekends, so give me a break.
I presume that your reason for living in Canada was driven by the fact that you could afford to live there and not, as most people, the desire for a more financially secure life. All the things that you brought up, are to me objectives that in my current location do not exist for the vast majority of working people and never will. As well as lacking social skills when conversing in a civilized manner on the internet, you obviously lack a grasp on how the vast majority of people live, not only in Canada, but the rest of the world as well.
You do not know me, nor do you know my husband and our work ethics. We will make it succeed. And of course the other factor that you are forgetting is that my husband was born in Canada and it's his god given right to live in his own country with his soul mate.
There are millions of unskilled Canadian couples that are working dead end jobs (without benefits) in order to make ends meat. Every time you go out your front door, without realising it, you will see the effect these individuals have on Canadian society; clean streets, stocked shelves, empty trash cans, and agricultural produce on your table, to mention just a very few.
These people don't necessarily aspire to emulate your standard of living but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy or a drain on society.
I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and my husband works weekends, so give me a break.
Do you think i wise to take that tone with a moderator? SERIOUSLY?
The vast majority of replies have said, one way or the other, that it would be foolish, and yet you ask "Why not canada?"
I simply spelled out the answer to your question as unambigously as possible.
If you still want to try, thats fine, its your funeral. But dont come on all hot and heavy if you dont like the answer, and especially not with a pissy mod who is on a vacation day, yet finds himself still at work at 10:30
Its not about your work ethics, it about the available opportunies in Canada, right now. They are few and far between. Everyone is downsizing and cutting back hours, but your plan is reliant on finding two full time jobs. Many people take years to find just one full time permanent job. I cant spell it out any clearer than that, Your optimism is admirable, but misplaced.
Jun 4th 2009, 2:41 pm
#40
Banned
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: In Limbo
Posts: 15,706
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Do you think i wise to take that tone with a moderator? SERIOUSLY?
The vast majority of replies have said, one way or the other, that it would be foolish, and yet you ask "Why not canada?"
I simply spelled out the answer to your question as unambigously as possible.
If you still want to try, thats fine, its your funeral. But dont come on all hot and heavy if you dont like the answer, and especially not with a pissy mod who is on a vacation day, yet finds himself still at work at 10:30
Its not about your work ethics, it about the available opportunies in Canada, right now. They are few and far between. Everyone is downsizing and cutting back hours, but your plan is reliant on finding two full time jobs. Many people take years to find just one full time permanent job. I cant spell it out any clearer than that, Your optimism is admirable, but misplaced.
The vast majority of replies have said, one way or the other, that it would be foolish, and yet you ask "Why not canada?"
I simply spelled out the answer to your question as unambigously as possible.
If you still want to try, thats fine, its your funeral. But dont come on all hot and heavy if you dont like the answer, and especially not with a pissy mod who is on a vacation day, yet finds himself still at work at 10:30
Its not about your work ethics, it about the available opportunies in Canada, right now. They are few and far between. Everyone is downsizing and cutting back hours, but your plan is reliant on finding two full time jobs. Many people take years to find just one full time permanent job. I cant spell it out any clearer than that, Your optimism is admirable, but misplaced.
TOTALLY agree with your latest post too.
Last edited by Butch Cassidy; Jun 4th 2009 at 2:55 pm.
Jun 4th 2009, 2:54 pm
#41
Slightly Canadian
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 10,129
Jun 4th 2009, 3:14 pm
#43
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,606
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Do not reply in that tone to me; I am not an idiot.
I presume that your reason for living in Canada was driven by the fact that you could afford to live there and not, as most people, the desire for a more financially secure life. All the things that you brought up, are to me objectives that in my current location do not exist for the vast majority of working people and never will. As well as lacking social skills when conversing in a civilized manner on the internet, you obviously lack a grasp on how the vast majority of people live, not only in Canada, but the rest of the world as well.
You do not know me, nor do you know my husband and our work ethics. We will make it succeed. And of course the other factor that you are forgetting is that my husband was born in Canada and it's his god given right to live in his own country with his soul mate.
There are millions of unskilled Canadian couples that are working dead end jobs (without benefits) in order to make ends meat. Every time you go out your front door, without realising it, you will see the effect these individuals have on Canadian society; clean streets, stocked shelves, empty trash cans, and agricultural produce on your table, to mention just a very few.
These people don't necessarily aspire to emulate your standard of living but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy or a drain on society.
I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and my husband works weekends, so give me a break.
I presume that your reason for living in Canada was driven by the fact that you could afford to live there and not, as most people, the desire for a more financially secure life. All the things that you brought up, are to me objectives that in my current location do not exist for the vast majority of working people and never will. As well as lacking social skills when conversing in a civilized manner on the internet, you obviously lack a grasp on how the vast majority of people live, not only in Canada, but the rest of the world as well.
You do not know me, nor do you know my husband and our work ethics. We will make it succeed. And of course the other factor that you are forgetting is that my husband was born in Canada and it's his god given right to live in his own country with his soul mate.
There are millions of unskilled Canadian couples that are working dead end jobs (without benefits) in order to make ends meat. Every time you go out your front door, without realising it, you will see the effect these individuals have on Canadian society; clean streets, stocked shelves, empty trash cans, and agricultural produce on your table, to mention just a very few.
These people don't necessarily aspire to emulate your standard of living but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy or a drain on society.
I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and my husband works weekends, so give me a break.
The numbers you have given clearly suggest that, if you come here, you will be poor. Dirt poor. A single routine trip to the dentist would swallow a week's grocery bill. I'd rather be poor and miserable somewhere warm.
It's not a God-given right, BTW. Canada is a secular country. Your hubby has an automatic right to live here. You don't.
Jun 4th 2009, 3:25 pm
#44
Dive Bar Drunk
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,649
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
James, I quoted 100-200k CAD, 50-100k uk, taking into account their ages and what they want to acheive in the next couple of years. The husband is 35, 5 years off 40, not a recent uni graduate looking to rough a couple of years in Canada.
1) They want to settle in a new country in a new continent.
2) They want to have a child in a couple of years.
3) They want to buy a house in the near future too.
Yes they can do it on what they have, but the reality is it is going to be a struggle. A decent smallish house in Brampton for example will set them back the best part of 300k CAD. I would forget buying a two bed apartment and just get a decent house from the start to start raising the family and setting roots. This will avoid repeating all of the moving cost when you outgrow the apartment, which you will sooner than you think especially with a child.
On such low salaries and with not much for a deposit how do you think they will be able to finance their dreams ?
Maybe I was a financial advisor for too long, maybe I have been in their situation before, now with two kids in tow, but I gave an honest assesment of the facts presented by oceanblue. It will be tough, but with determination they will make it in the long run.
Please do not under estimate the initial moving cost associated with emigrating. I always advise people to have a minimum 6-12 months living expenses tucked away in the bank, and that is aside from money for property, car etc.
1) They want to settle in a new country in a new continent.
2) They want to have a child in a couple of years.
3) They want to buy a house in the near future too.
Yes they can do it on what they have, but the reality is it is going to be a struggle. A decent smallish house in Brampton for example will set them back the best part of 300k CAD. I would forget buying a two bed apartment and just get a decent house from the start to start raising the family and setting roots. This will avoid repeating all of the moving cost when you outgrow the apartment, which you will sooner than you think especially with a child.
On such low salaries and with not much for a deposit how do you think they will be able to finance their dreams ?
Maybe I was a financial advisor for too long, maybe I have been in their situation before, now with two kids in tow, but I gave an honest assesment of the facts presented by oceanblue. It will be tough, but with determination they will make it in the long run.
Please do not under estimate the initial moving cost associated with emigrating. I always advise people to have a minimum 6-12 months living expenses tucked away in the bank, and that is aside from money for property, car etc.
Jun 4th 2009, 3:26 pm
#45
Dive Bar Drunk
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,649
Re: Can You Get By In Toronto Earning Minimum Wage?
Do you think i wise to take that tone with a moderator? SERIOUSLY?
The vast majority of replies have said, one way or the other, that it would be foolish, and yet you ask "Why not canada?"
I simply spelled out the answer to your question as unambigously as possible.
If you still want to try, thats fine, its your funeral. But dont come on all hot and heavy if you dont like the answer, and especially not with a pissy mod who is on a vacation day, yet finds himself still at work at 10:30
Its not about your work ethics, it about the available opportunies in Canada, right now. They are few and far between. Everyone is downsizing and cutting back hours, but your plan is reliant on finding two full time jobs. Many people take years to find just one full time permanent job. I cant spell it out any clearer than that, Your optimism is admirable, but misplaced.
The vast majority of replies have said, one way or the other, that it would be foolish, and yet you ask "Why not canada?"
I simply spelled out the answer to your question as unambigously as possible.
If you still want to try, thats fine, its your funeral. But dont come on all hot and heavy if you dont like the answer, and especially not with a pissy mod who is on a vacation day, yet finds himself still at work at 10:30
Its not about your work ethics, it about the available opportunies in Canada, right now. They are few and far between. Everyone is downsizing and cutting back hours, but your plan is reliant on finding two full time jobs. Many people take years to find just one full time permanent job. I cant spell it out any clearer than that, Your optimism is admirable, but misplaced.
By the way do Mod's get paid?
Last edited by JamesM; Jun 4th 2009 at 3:30 pm. Reason: Spelling