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Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Old Apr 27th 2007, 10:53 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Unfortunatly a House Inspector in Canada is an un-regulated beast , and some HI's can form a chummy realationship within the Industry, but it can work both ways, I know of one HI who would never give the first house a good report, on the assumption that he would get 2 or 3 more inspections out of that client.

I now only recomend inspectors who belong to CANADIAN ASSOCIATION OF HOME & PROPERTY INSPECTORS:-

http://www.cahpi.ca/index.php?option...tpage&Itemid=1

At least these people have had to go through some hoops to get accepted.

A Realtor, by our code of ethics, should give 2 or 3 choices for any professional who is recomended by them, and allow the client to choose. I would be cautious of any Realtor who was pushy about you choosing any one person.
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Old Apr 29th 2007, 8:50 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Hi All,

Thanks for your comments. Well... we decided to send some wonderful friends of ours and our realtor through the house before we bought the flights out there. They went through the house yesterday and the feedback was really interesting. Basically, the layout, rooms, garden, neighbourhood were all great but... the finishing on the place was really poor (the realtor gave it 4 out of 10!) which is interesting because if you look at the photos the finishing looks impressive. Apparently they used high quality materials but very low quality workmanship.

The process of trying to decide whether to buy it has been really interesting and helpful. I do think its possible to buy sight unseen IF you have friends/family/realtor you can trust (ours was incredibly honest) AND they can take photos for you. It also made us realise that we really want something that's ours when we land rather than hunting then and so as soon as our house is sold and sorted I think we'll head out for a couple of days and a big house hunt!

Thanks again for all your comments!

emily
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 12:30 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Hudman
Your going to have to convince me your HI messed up.
How about a HI who missed an internal oil tank that had been leaking for so long that it had seeped through the concrete, through the subfloor, through the dirt and into the groundwater?

$100k in insurance payout later to remove the contaminated soil and refinish the basement, plus a triple filtration sytem on the well water supply was required to fix that one. The same guy missed the pretty basic fact that the outside "lights" were in fact no more than just fixtures screwed to the wall, with no power going to them. That guy was a cowboy, and the insurance company, with its near infinate legal resources has given up all hope of justice after 5 years trying.

Not my house fortunately, but that of a freind.

The only silver lining was that since he had the HI report and worked in insurace himself he was able to argue that his new home insurance had to pay out for the oil contamination as the HI had given the tank a clean bill of health, so the leak must have occured after he moved in. The fact that it would have taken years for the oil to reach down to the water table was conveniently overlooked.

Im not saying all inspectors are crooks, ours certainlky did a decent job, (although there is not much inspection you can do outside in January) but some certainly are dodgy and buyer beware applies big time, more so than for choosing a realtor anyway in my opinion.

Last edited by iaink; Apr 30th 2007 at 12:33 pm.
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 1:07 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Following on from the above comments, another question open to the floor please.

What kind of inspection/survey - if any - would a mortgage company require? We are lucky enough not to have to go through this quagmire, but the sellers of the home I have just put the offer on, re-mortgaged their home last October. Would they have been required to have any kind of survey done at that time?

I have had the place inspected, and the only point of note that came up was the roof shingles, which I had been advised of anyway by the realtor. Otherwise, a few minor things relating to one window and an electrical point in a toilet. I was present and felt they did a good job - but how can you ever really know as the new-comer to this system?
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

They will require a survey (not an inspection), and if you are lucky they will accept the previous one, so you wont need to get a new one.

As for the inspection comfort factor, in short, you cant... Unless you are a contractor and know the codes, in which case you wouldnt be paying someone else to do the inspection anyway.

Good Luck
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 2:44 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Thanks Iain - we don't need to go the mortgage route so we don't have a lender that would want to see a survey. But would it be fair to say the place can't have any major defects if it was very recently mortgaged anyway, or is that wishful thinking on my part?

The inspection I have had done, seemed thorough on most elements - it made me smile when they put on some laundry to check the machine, but hey, why not? Water/moisture not an issue anywhere, including the basement, furnace and tank and general applicances all seemed good and well maintained - but certain things are not covered, like the basement structure, etc. Never having had a basement, I guess I am just feeling a little nervous. It doesn't look like a turkey purchase, but then these things never do !
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 3:40 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Hudman
How long did the Inspection take?
Were you there for Inspection...was the home furnished?
Again if it was a design flaw or BTU calculation of duct size, they are not included on ANY HI Standards of Practice.
Perhaps you should have read your Home Inspectors SOP.
Quite frankly if I could get a HVAC Engineer, Plumber, Carpenter etc etc for around $400 I would do that pre purchase. HI's are generalists akin to seeing your GP. He will refer you, if appropriate.
Your going to have to convince me your HI messed up.

I don't have to convince anybody about anything. For the record the house was empty and unfurnished, I was there for the whole two hours it took (he was very polite, showed me where all the valves and taps were - even labelled them etc). He even put the heating on to check furnace was working and wandered around each room. The two vents in the front bedroom have no air going to them at all - like I said, perhaps I was expecting too much.
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 7:59 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by ann m
Thanks Iain - we don't need to go the mortgage route so we don't have a lender that would want to see a survey. But would it be fair to say the place can't have any major defects if it was very recently mortgaged anyway, or is that wishful thinking on my part?
This is absolutely wishful thinking. The bank is only concerned with the value of the property and that's about where it is not what state it's in. They often just do a "drive by" valuation on the basis that a house that's still standing on a particular street must be worth n dollars. If the mortgage is for half n the bank is safe.
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 10:59 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by iaink
How about a HI who missed an internal oil tank that had been leaking for so long that it had seeped through the concrete, through the subfloor, through the dirt and into the groundwater?

$100k in insurance payout later to remove the contaminated soil and refinish the basement, plus a triple filtration sytem on the well water supply was required to fix that one. The same guy missed the pretty basic fact that the outside "lights" were in fact no more than just fixtures screwed to the wall, with no power going to them. That guy was a cowboy, and the insurance company, with its near infinate legal resources has given up all hope of justice after 5 years trying.

Not my house fortunately, but that of a freind.

The only silver lining was that since he had the HI report and worked in insurace himself he was able to argue that his new home insurance had to pay out for the oil contamination as the HI had given the tank a clean bill of health, so the leak must have occured after he moved in. The fact that it would have taken years for the oil to reach down to the water table was conveniently overlooked.

Im not saying all inspectors are crooks, ours certainlky did a decent job, (although there is not much inspection you can do outside in January) but some certainly are dodgy and buyer beware applies big time, more so than for choosing a realtor anyway in my opinion.

Unrealistic, Armchair analysis.. perhaps too much pete, john ,steve, Holmes whatever his name is on TV.
What about the tens of thousands of Inspections that save buyers expense of unforseen defects etc. And the Inspectors who bother in a unregulated Industry to get qualified and trained.
Constant examples of the worst of any Industry are pretty easy to find, especially from Industries such as HI as invariably things going wrong cost, and people like someone to blame.
The Industry is far harder than surveying back in blighty so personally I think the Industry does pretty well.
I have no interest in defending cowboys but I can see a number of scenarios where a leaking tank may not be discovered. Ditto lighting

There is also a psychological scenario with contractors coming to evaluate/repair defects, they tend to make the last professional look bad to big themselves up, and gain credibility with their new customer. It is very easy to diagnose and opportion blame when the building is ripped open.

Probably better people dont have an Inspection, or pay upwards of 5-6 specialist contractors costing thousands.
There is more than enough information online etc to find some criteria for hiring an Inspector, if people ring up first # in yellow pages they probably get what they deserve.
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 11:07 pm
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by MCrocker
I don't have to convince anybody about anything. For the record the house was empty and unfurnished, I was there for the whole two hours it took (he was very polite, showed me where all the valves and taps were - even labelled them etc). He even put the heating on to check furnace was working and wandered around each room. The two vents in the front bedroom have no air going to them at all - like I said, perhaps I was expecting too much.
For a start a 2 hour Inspection (at least on a single family home) is a bit light.
was this person a member of any association, or just some bod from yellow pages?
Your initial concern was that the defect was at furnace for all to see, it would be most unusual to have a duct problem visible at furnace that would not affect all the registers.
On a 2 hour Inspection I doubt the Inspector would have had time to check that all the registers were giving heat.
As said before your description sounds like a problem in the distribution ductwork which is for the most part not visible on finished areas.
Try this for scope of most Inspectors http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/standards/standards.asp
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Hudman
On a 2 hour Inspection I doubt the Inspector would have had time to check that all the registers were giving heat.

Do you mean to tell us that an inspector can't turn up a thermostat and check each register. In the average house that should take no more than ten minutes tops.
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Old Apr 30th 2007, 11:58 pm
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Steve_P
Do you mean to tell us that an inspector can't turn up a thermostat and check each register. In the average house that should take no more than ten minutes tops.
Did I say that??
I said the Inspection of 2 hours on a Single family home was a bit tight, so with all the other componants , depending on size of home, he may have been pushed for time especially if he was badly organised .This is not to say checking for heat can't be done, but access to registers in fully furnished homes is sometimes limited.
See http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/standards/standards8.asp
I would say ignorance of the profession and armchair "experts" are a far higher liability than a poor inspector.
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Old May 1st 2007, 1:44 am
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Hudman
Did I say that??
I said the Inspection of 2 hours on a Single family home was a bit tight, so with all the other componants , depending on size of home, he may have been pushed for time especially if he was badly organised .This is not to say checking for heat can't be done, but access to registers in fully furnished homes is sometimes limited.
See http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/standards/standards8.asp
I would say ignorance of the profession and armchair "experts" are a far higher liability than a poor inspector.
Point taken.
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Old May 1st 2007, 2:47 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Hudman
Did I say that??
I said the Inspection of 2 hours on a Single family home was a bit tight, so with all the other componants , depending on size of home, he may have been pushed for time especially if he was badly organised .This is not to say checking for heat can't be done, but access to registers in fully furnished homes is sometimes limited.
See http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/standards/standards8.asp
I would say ignorance of the profession and armchair "experts" are a far higher liability than a poor inspector.
MCrocker said "for the record, the house was empty and unfurnished." So I don't think access to registers has anything to do with it. Why are you so determined to defend a HI who missed a problem? You don't need to be able to see the ductwork in the walls to identify registers with no air coming from them.

Ours, for the record, was pretty good, and took about 3 hrs for a single family home - pointed out a couple of things that need addressing and so far <touches wood madly> nothing has come to light that wasn't picked up. So I have no beef against HIs in general, but you seem not to be able to acknowledge that some are just not very good. And as for your "especially if he was badly organised" comment - poor time management should abslolutely, definitively, never be an excuse for not doing a job properly.
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Old May 1st 2007, 4:24 pm
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Default Re: Buying a house you've never seen?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
MCrocker said "for the record, the house was empty and unfurnished." So I don't think access to registers has anything to do with it. Why are you so determined to defend a HI who missed a problem? You don't need to be able to see the ductwork in the walls to identify registers with no air coming from them.

My comment made was a generic one "sometimes limited". Your point about ductwork is true but the poster alluded to a problems plain to see at the furnace.

Ours, for the record, was pretty good, and took about 3 hrs for a single family home - pointed out a couple of things that need addressing and so far nothing has come to light that wasn't picked up. So I have no beef against HIs in general, but you seem not to be able to acknowledge that some are just not very good. And as for your "especially if he was badly organised" comment - poor time management should abslolutely, definitively, never be an excuse for not doing a job properly.
There is good and bad in all industries, for an Industry that is allegedly ridden with cowboys it does pretty well. The HI industry is an open target because so much can go wrong.
It is absurd to blanket an industry by the worst case scenarios. The main problem is that many people do not research hiring an Inspector.
I actually made references to the Inspection being a bit quick, I am not defending bad time management but the professional Inspection process is very well defined in terms of what's tested, and most Inspectors have a set routine, which in the real world with the constraints of access, having clients/realtors asking questions, can be pushed.
A 2 hour inspection on a single Family home is going some.
If anybody bothered to read the SOP that a Professional HI should give their client they would understand the limitations, and in some cases shortcomings of the Industry.
So I am not necessarily defending poor Inspecting , but looking at the bigger picture of the Industry, its very easy to be an armchair critic after things go wrong. I have seen consummate professionals in action and believe me it is an extremely challenging Industry taking into account the rather fragile and varied building systems in N America.
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