British pride
 

I read on this forum that Canadians only like Brits if they put their country down. I know a few Canadians and they're fascinated by British culture. I always considered Canada to be a tollerant and intelligent place.

There is zero British pride in Britain. I'm very proud of my nation but wish to live elsewhere. Canada offers geographical advantages we can't have in Britain, but by leaving a country shouldn't make you embarrassed about your identity and the good things about your culture.

What's your opinion? Would it be a mistake to come to Canada and think well of my country?

Thanks for your opinions -

Paul

Re: British pride
 

Nope, not true ... I really didn't like what Tony Blair was doing to the country and wanted a fresh start, but that doesn't stop me being proud of my heritage.

Nope ... what upsets them is making "we do that much better in the UK" comparisons.

Nothing wrong with pride in your background ... one guy up the road has a huge St Andrews flag painted on his garage ... you see plenty of union jack front plates around.

Re: British pride
 

I agree with Glaswegian. It doesn't matter where you come from, if you move to Canada - or elsewhere for that matter - and start on about how much better things are in England and keep griping about how they do things in Canada that are not the same as England - then its going to get up people's noses.

Re: British pride
 

I read a lot about pride and what people think of other nations.
You describe a guy painting the cross of St george on his garage put that is a footie develpment of the last decade. The devolved governments of Wales and Scotland have led the English to suddenly wonder who they are apart from British. It has been fun to get behind the Rugby and fooball teams (so long as you're English :D ) but it does little for my pride.
I am proud of a load of my heritage and Britain is a wonderful place in so many ways so I can say I'm a Brit with pride.
However there are a lot of the British attributes that I hate to have an assocition with but I believe I will find is what most Canadians also dislike.
Some examples are : binge drinking, Blair's inability to say no to Bush and to let Britain be sucked into Iraq and many of our historical colonial exploits. I hope to live in the territory of the Acadian expulsion where the Brits were a disgrace so when I go into a French speaking shop I shall use my crap French and show some dignity.
Pride is within and not a red cross painted on everything. The country I want to embrace will want me to wave the maple leaf and my British pride should be understated.
I want Canadians to like me for the person I am and not for the baggage label that says "British", "English", "Handsome" etc :D :D

Sorry guys, no heavy rant intended but an opinion was invited!
Think well or ill of your country but what are you to Canada should be your question.

Re: British pride
 

I didn't indicate that this would happen. It incenses me when foreigners do this in Britain, and that everyone is so paranoid about saying or doing anything about it for fear of being branded a racist

Re: British pride
 

Shouldn't be too hard to put yourselves in the shoes of a Canadian in the same position?

Re: British pride
 

You're certainly right behind use of flags mainly for sporting support and celebrations. To be honest flying the flag is not something I would do outside of such celebrations, without wishing to attach any detriment to my country.

I am very tired of what my country has become and the political squeekier than ever appearance. I deplore the morons who care more about what happens on The Street or in Walford than what is actually happening around them. Nobody does or cares about anything other than following the crowd and spending unrepayable credit on brands they can ill afford. Oh, also the lack of responsibility through being drunk attitude. Now you got me ranting!

However I see that dissatisfaction is not a good reason to leave a country for another, and you have to have a good reason for it to be Country A (or should that be C?). For me it's quality of life, admiration of the people/culture, love of unspoilt nature, affordability, education, diverse climate and national security. This is a picture I have built of Canada and I don't think the reality will disappoint.

Re: British pride
 

Glas, I do apologise. I did misquote you as my brain was thinking about a garage near me with the St George flag! Big oooooops! :o :o :o

Did you pull your post because it disappeared whilst I was eating chicken?

Re: British pride
 

Yup ... after a rant nowadays I feel like I've just farted in an elevator ... fortunately a rant can be undone ...

Re: British pride
 

However I think we will find a lot of canadian flags outside houses on most days.
I like the idea but mainly becuase I like what it stands for certainly in comparison to the British flag!

Re: British pride
 

To some noses a fart can smell sweet :D
It read fine to me but saying that I've forgotten what you said :)
Should have left it and repaired the damage later (did I repair mine?)

Re: British pride
 

It wasn't anything of great importance :D

Re: British pride
 

I don't think there's anything wrong with being proud of where you come from.
Just don't ram it down others throats.

Act how you'd like the immigrants to the UK should act.

Re: British pride
 

Speaking as a Canadian (albeit in Australia) I had lots of friends from different countries and I can't remember one of them slagging it. They were all proud to have a sort of "dual heritage" one from the country they were proud to have been born in, and the other from the country they (or thier parents) chose to live in.

I agree with Lilwiz.. just don't start bitching and moaning about how Canada sucks and Britain is SO much better. That will get up people noses really fast!

Siren

Re: British pride
 

I agree with Glas and Liz. Nothing wrong with being proud of your roots, but constant negative comparisons with the motherland will get a terse "well go back there then if its so good" in some quarters.

Iain

Proud to fly both flags from my deck...although the UK one is falling apart at the seams...I kid you not! Metaphore anyone:D

Re: British pride
 

Actually, I don't mind people commenting on what sucks about Canada because there are a lot of things that completely suck about Canada. What can bother me, if I let it, is people saying there's no history or culture in Canada. But then I just remind myself that some people are pretty dense, ignorant and/or arrogant and just let them fully express how moronic they are. :)

Re: British pride
 

Yep, I know what you mean...and I know what they mean too. Its just different, thats all.

Re: British pride
 

Just saw "Vera Drake". Brought back some memories when I was a kid. A part of English history I am personally familiar with.

Re: British pride
 

There's plenty of culture & history out west ... it's just that the timeframe is either very shallow (last 100 to 200 years) or you're looking back thousands & millions of years ... there isn't much in the middle distance if you're used to living somewhere that's been continuously occupied for the last few thousand years.

Leicester is older than London ... every hole they dug "in the downtown core" found Roman or Viking period artifacts ... the city also has standing Roman ruins, a medieval castle mound, etc, etc.

The equivalent in Calgary is to dig a hole and find a 10,000 year old buffalo jump ... they're all over the place. But finding the location of Sam Livingstone's first log cabin from the late 1800's took effort.

Re: British pride
 

Ok, now you're bothering me...

Re: British pride
 

I wasn't criticising Calgary ... just passing comment on the youth of the place ... most of the city is 20th century ... there isn't anything much older than that in Calgary outside of a museum ... I also didn't say that I didn't like it.

If I'd said in all of Canada you'd might be justified ... I said in the west ... if you need me to be evn more specific, that excludes BC ... it's somewhere I've never been.

Go ahead and get hot & bothered, but you aren't doing much for the Candian reputation for tolerance of new people with a different view of life :D

Re: British pride
 

Heehee, my mother-in-law came over for a visit this past fall, and after about a week of sightseeing, asked me where the old buildings were.

Me: How old? We have some places in Quebec and NS that date back to the 17th century.
Her: Yes, but what about before that?
Me: Before? There wasn't anyone here before that, except the natives and they were nomadic so didn't leave any buildings
Her: So you mean before that it was all just barren land?
Husband (clueing into a potentially tense conversation): It wasn't barren and changed the subject.

Re: British pride
 

:mad:

I'm being pretty tolerant right now, considering.

Re: British pride
 

Well, be tolerant a bit longer and explain why this bugs Canadians so much??

This is obviously a trap every Brit is capable of falling into with their eyes wide open ... we can't do much about coming from an old country and more than a Canadian can do much about coming from a young country ... please bridge the attitude gap and explain.

In everyday life I've gone for the simple approach of never making comments about Canadian (whether I think they're positive or negative) because someone or other is duty bound to get hot under the collar ...

Canadians occasionally toss you a "what do you think of ...?" or "how does ... compare with the UK?" grenade with the pin pulled out ... DO NOT ANSWER WITH AN HONEST OPINION, THEY DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ONE ... just settle for "it's different" ... makes life so much easier.

Re: British pride
 

I think it all depends on how it's put. Inflection is everything and wording can be dangerous. It's statements like:

"Canada has no culture."

and...

"Canada has no history."

That get Canadians hot under the collar. The statements sound derogatory, like they could be followed by "...unlike Britain, Europe etc..."

Our past doesn't go back as far..true, but it is rich with history and culture which most Canadians are proud of.

Walking through Old Montreal where the buildings can be 350 years old makes us feel a link to those first settlers in the same way that visiting an old keep or castle in Scotland makes Scots feel a link to thier heritage. It's no LESS of a heritage, just younger.

To me, Perth seems VERY new in comparison to Montreal (only about 150 years old) much the same way Canada must feel to Europeans but the culture is still there as is the history which Aussies are proud of.

I guess the rule of thumb is "Don't dis my country." LOL

I promise not to use the word "history" and "culture" for the next while to make up for my overuse of them in this post. Hahaha.


Siren

P.S. Wanna see us really annoyed? Call us "Yanks" Grrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:

Re: British pride
 

I didn't think that anyone here was saying Canada had no history or culture - just that it was several centuries younger than Europe? That is merely the simple truth. Or is there an undercurrent in this conversation I am missing?

Re: British pride
 

First off, it’s going to bug different Canadians for different reasons. And FWIW, it’s not just Brits who can fall into this trap.

Anyway here are my reasons – a concise edition.

The description of Calgary, and the rest of Canada, as a young place denies the fact that for at least 10,000 prior to Europeans showing up, there were millions of people building homes, having sex and making babies, having wars, practising religious beliefs, complaining about the weather, settling disputes, etc. in all kinds of distinctly different ways depending on whatever region and/or nation.

I’m also bothered by assumptions that often runs through discussions like this that European culture is the standard to which other cultures are measured (eg, old buildings = culture, no or new buildings = no or less developed culture) or, more bothersome (to me), that indigenous cultures have nothing to do with contemporay Canadians or Canada and so ‘don’t really count’. Or put another way, that it it only the culture of settlers that is considered Canadian culture.

Re: British pride
 

British Pride, is ok but remember you were so proud of it you left it.

I'm who I am, living where I live, responsible for what I do, not for what you do or have done.

I don't want to be tarred with a general "oh your English" brush whether it's good or bad.

For every good thing that we are proud of I'm sure theres example's of the opposite as well.

So argue with everyone over every point and stamp your feet because you're
right, but don't tell me you're better than me because I'm not from your country.

Re: British pride
 

Nah... not here or in this thread in particular, but I 've seen it and heard it.
No undercurrent that I'm aware of but I'm sortof oblivious :D

Siren

Re: British pride
 

THere's a big advantage in that there's no historical baggage.

Re: British pride
 

Calgary is a young place ... it was named after Calgary in Mull by Colonel MacLeod ... I did also say that there was history in the area stretching back thousands and millions of years ...

The native inhabitants of Alberta didn't go in for building grandiose permanent structures in the same way that the Greeks or Romans did .. so there's a lot less to see above ground level.

So you automatically assume that all europeans will apply these assumptions without thinking about it?? Sounds a bit racist to me: "all europeans think the same way".

If I made an equivalent comment about first nations you'd leap down my throat without a moment's hesitation - all first nations people aren't the same, why assume all europeans think the same way??

Re: British pride
 

Actually, there is a lot to see above ground - a lot to hear, touch, eat, watch, experience and learn about. You just have to realise it's not going to be old buildings, standing stones, medieval mounds, Roman mosaics, etc.

Racist? If you read again what I wrote you will see that I did not even come close to saying that. Please, don't put words in my mouth. Me, 'being bothered by assumptions' is not me saying "all europeans think the same way".

I'm bothered by the assumptions and there is no geographic or cultural determinant of who is going to make those assumptions. Canadians, even Native-Canadians, can often make the assumptions I'm taking about and there are many Europeans who do not. I never attached a nation or cultural group to who makes the assumptions that bother me and I'd appreciate if you would not imply that I did.

FWIW, I'm not angry or think less of you or anyone else who makes these assumptions (like my opinion even matters to other people). I think it's practically unavoidable given how Canada's 'conventional' history, culture, etc is portrayed in the mainstream here in Canada and abroad – but at the same time, I can't help but be bothered by it.

Re: British pride
 

the native americans wouldnt agree on that one......

Re: British pride
 

Okay I'm going to jump in here and stir things up a bit...because I'm bored! ;)

This is only my opinion mind you...so don't any other Canadians that don't agree jump down my throat. :D

Personally the main reason I get all hot and bothered by the old 'Canada has no culture or history' argument is this...

As a Canadian I feel we have always been in the shadow of mainly 2 countries. The US and England. We are a continually belittled by the Americans and shrugged off by them as inconsequential while the English (and I know this from experience) in a lot of cases... consider us an extension of the US or the poorer relative! (hence why so many think that immigrating to Canada is a step towards the States...what tosh that is!! I'd have difficulty immigrating there...why would it be any different for some of you?..and you know who you are )

We have, as a nation, struggled with this throughout our short history. We are an immensely proud nation...as most nations are...and hence are very proud of our own unique history and culture...which IS different from others...although there are some similarities which makes immigrating to our Nation a realitively easy experience compared to a more 'foreign country'. We are also, I feel, a very genuine, friendly nation...(do you know many places where if you are stranded in -30 weather someone will pick you up and take you to their home give you supper and a bed if needed?) We are who we are because of our history...not inspite of it ...and we are damned proud of that...history is what makes us who we are...be it short or long.

(I love the English history and exploring all the sites...fantastic...but the big big bonus of our history is that it doesn't take years to learn it in school!! :) )

Culture...what is culture? Canada is steeped in culture...it's perhaps not what you would term as High Brow...but it's our culture...and it works for us! We are generally a down to earth people with down to earth expectations in life...to work, raise families and have as much enjoyment doing so as possible!! :D (Yes there are exceptions...there always will be)

A lot of us don't care if we are dressed in the latest fashions from France...we'd stick out like a sore thumb!! A lot of us don't have a clue about classical music...but how many of you have attended a powwow? (you should by the way...it is a wonderful experience!)

So the bottom line is...when you insult or belittle those aspects of our nation...you strike the core of who we are!

So someone asked the question of why we get so defensive...this is my perspective of the situation...rightly or wrongly.

Did that stir the pot do you think?
;)

Re: British pride
 

Oh puh-leeze... where's a good vomiting emoticon when you need one?

I could jump so far down your throat you'd get a tummy ache but I think, 'why bother?'. :rolleyes:

Re: British pride
 

Good...so I did stir the pot...it worked! :D

Re: British pride
 

I think you have expressed yourself very well and fairly . I do not understand this constant attack on canada for its history and culture .England is steeped, supposedly ,in both and we are not doing so great in as far as peoples general attitude to their fellow man, which to me far outweighs any other aspect . I acknowledge that when I move to Canada I will miss the history and architecture in some parts of england , but it will be balanced by different elements in Canada . If people want all these things why are they moving ??
I really believe going to Canada will not be better or worse but different .
I am hoping that this will give us, as a family a balance ,that suits us .For every aspect I think I will miss , I can think of something I will gain .

All this naval gazing is peoples way of dealing with the insecurity of making such a lifechanging decision .I am continuously ranging through all the extremes of emotion . Sitting at the computer reading this wonderful website and calling over to my husband" thats it we can't go theres only 2 weeks holiday a year ." And then the next day saying" oh its ok some people can negotiate more time " and he just quietly raises one eyebrow , and points out that over here i am parttime and because of the ability to juggle my hours only really take 2 weeks hols a year !!!!! I find this website brilliant because in the end it is always so balanced .It is preparing us for some of the changes so we are not surprised but at the end of the day (Beckham quote ) none of us will know until we get there and start our lives .
One of my longest posts I may now get RSI in my right index finger !!!

Karen ;)





QUOTE=dawnwynne]Okay I'm going to jump in here and stir things up a bit...because I'm bored! ;)

This is only my opinion mind you...so don't any other Canadians that don't agree jump down my throat. :D

Personally the main reason I get all hot and bothered by the old 'Canada has no culture or history' argument is this...

As a Canadian I feel we have always been in the shadow of mainly 2 countries. The US and England. We are a continually belittled by the Americans and shrugged off by them as inconsequential while the English (and I know this from experience) in a lot of cases... consider us an extension of the US or the poorer relative! (hence why so many think that immigrating to Canada is a step towards the States...what tosh that is!! I'd have difficulty immigrating there...why would it be any different for some of you?..and you know who you are )

We have, as a nation, struggled with this throughout our short history. We are an immensely proud nation...as most nations are...and hence are very proud of our own unique history and culture...which IS different from others...although there are some similarities which makes immigrating to our Nation a realitively easy experience compared to a more 'foreign country'. We are also, I feel, a very genuine, friendly nation...(do you know many places where if you are stranded in -30 weather someone will pick you up and take you to their home give you supper and a bed if needed?) We are who we are because of our history...not inspite of it ...and we are damned proud of that...history is what makes us who we are...be it short or long.

(I love the English history and exploring all the sites...fantastic...but the big big bonus of our history is that it doesn't take years to learn it in school!! :) )

Culture...what is culture? Canada is steeped in culture...it's perhaps not what you would term as High Brow...but it's our culture...and it works for us! We are generally a down to earth people with down to earth expectations in life...to work, raise families and have as much enjoyment doing so as possible!! :D (Yes there are exceptions...there always will be)

A lot of us don't care if we are dressed in the latest fashions from France...we'd stick out like a sore thumb!! A lot of us don't have a clue about classical music...but how many of you have attended a powwow? (you should by the way...it is a wonderful experience!)

So the bottom line is...when you insult or belittle those aspects of our nation...you strike the core of who we are!

So someone asked the question of why we get so defensive...this is my perspective of the situation...rightly or wrongly.

Did that stir the pot do you think?
;)[/QUOTE]