Brit-haters in Quebec
#46
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Near Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 1,316
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
With all due respect, CFRA does not represent the entire Ottawa region. To me, it targets the english speaking middle class population who are 55 + in age. Lowell Green foams at the mouth at all those 'damn somalis' and 'pinko bus drivers' and 'kaybeckers' etc and most people roll their eyes at his rants.
I'm in Ottawa and in eastern Ontario, for the most part the two language groups get along just fine...it is just isolated examples that the press clings to.
In all honesty, this forum is not the best place to complain about people not speaking a certain language...generally people from the UK are tragically lacking in 2nd language skills and many feel that those in continental europe should speak and offer services in english when in england itself services in a language other than english for tourists is severely lacking.
I'm in Ottawa and in eastern Ontario, for the most part the two language groups get along just fine...it is just isolated examples that the press clings to.
In all honesty, this forum is not the best place to complain about people not speaking a certain language...generally people from the UK are tragically lacking in 2nd language skills and many feel that those in continental europe should speak and offer services in english when in england itself services in a language other than english for tourists is severely lacking.
The language of the business world is generally English though.
I speak French but the Parisien kind not the go go Gatineau French. I had some clients who moved from France with Nortel and they were very unhappy because they could'nt make themselves understood in Quebec..
I am not complaining about who can and who is not speaking any language, but when any party whether it be English or French is pushing their ways on the other-I think thats wrong..
#47
Soulless bureaucrat
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 361
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
I speak French but the Parisien kind not the go go Gatineau French. I had some clients who moved from France with Nortel and they were very unhappy because they could'nt make themselves understood in Quebec..
Seems surprising to me? Usually the problem is not making yourself understood in 'French French' in Quebec but understanding the replies.
Where were your French clients from - Marseille?
Seems surprising to me? Usually the problem is not making yourself understood in 'French French' in Quebec but understanding the replies.
Where were your French clients from - Marseille?
#48
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Near Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 1,316
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
I'm with mike on this, without bilingualism there is no Canada. Still I love the second link
"What is the cost of bilingualism?"
"As of 2000 it was $18 billion per year."
it says, without explanation.
Of course, even if we believe it, it's nowhere near explaining how "If we got rid of the cost of bilingualism we would'nt be facing a deficit in Canada for the next 5 years."
"What is the cost of bilingualism?"
"As of 2000 it was $18 billion per year."
it says, without explanation.
Of course, even if we believe it, it's nowhere near explaining how "If we got rid of the cost of bilingualism we would'nt be facing a deficit in Canada for the next 5 years."
"Flaherty said some projects will need to happen quickly.
"There's going to be significant unemployment next year in Canada so we need to do that."
But he said they must also look at projects that are "long-term stimulative" for the Canadian economy.
Ottawa has pledged $6 billion already set aside for 2009 for infrastructure spending.
On Tuesday, the Conference Board of Canada recommended that Ottawa spend $10 billion to $13 billion on stimulus, which it acknowledged would create a $20-billion federal deficit."
So this is I work it out!!!
Not spending $18 billion per year of bilingualism, would go a long way towards getting rid of the $20 billion Fed deficit, or I am being stoopid or missing something here?
Last edited by shelley748; Feb 16th 2009 at 2:46 am. Reason: typo
#49
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Near Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 1,316
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
I speak French but the Parisien kind not the go go Gatineau French. I had some clients who moved from France with Nortel and they were very unhappy because they could'nt make themselves understood in Quebec..
Seems surprising to me? Usually the problem is not making yourself understood in 'French French' in Quebec but understanding the replies.
Where were your French clients from - Marseille?
Seems surprising to me? Usually the problem is not making yourself understood in 'French French' in Quebec but understanding the replies.
Where were your French clients from - Marseille?
#50
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,124
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
I am astounded to read that the French from France have trouble being understood in Quebec. I am far more inclined to believe the reverse.
(When i came here some 47 years ago i had a perfect Parisian accent, having been schooled in Paris. I can still revert to my 'posh French' if needs be).
(When i came here some 47 years ago i had a perfect Parisian accent, having been schooled in Paris. I can still revert to my 'posh French' if needs be).
Last edited by montreal mike; Feb 16th 2009 at 3:22 am.
#51
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Morris Park, New York
Posts: 298
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
JC! Didnt want a huge debate - just wanted some advice from others. What Ive experienced is outside of workplace as everyone works and speaks in English at work to British standards - even the French ones. The problems ive had are from the French about the city - most are nice but had some say to me things like "shut up speak French or go back to UK." One was even a shop keeper and this I couldnt believe at all (I got furious at this girl and nearly lost it). Apart from learning French, which I cant really see myself doing as I work shift work and run multiple tandem projects, what other advice, other than calling myself "Australian", could be useful?
Another thing is that I really don't get the French Canadian & France/French thing? France was out of the picture in Canada (from what I saw on wikipedia) in 1600s? Frances empire in Canada is long gone - so why do French-Canadians/Quebec owe allegience to "the frogs?" I understand Canada has a Westminster style parliament - so isnt French Quebec part of that?
Another thing is that I really don't get the French Canadian & France/French thing? France was out of the picture in Canada (from what I saw on wikipedia) in 1600s? Frances empire in Canada is long gone - so why do French-Canadians/Quebec owe allegience to "the frogs?" I understand Canada has a Westminster style parliament - so isnt French Quebec part of that?
#52
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Formally Scotland. Now Bay of Quinte...Ontario
Posts: 2,466
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
JC! Didnt want a huge debate - just wanted some advice from others. What Ive experienced is outside of workplace as everyone works and speaks in English at work to British standards - even the French ones. The problems ive had are from the French about the city - most are nice but had some say to me things like "shut up speak French or go back to UK." One was even a shop keeper and this I couldnt believe at all (I got furious at this girl and nearly lost it). Apart from learning French, which I cant really see myself doing as I work shift work and run multiple tandem projects, what other advice, other than calling myself "Australian", could be useful?
Another thing is that I really don't get the French Canadian & France/French thing? France was out of the picture in Canada (from what I saw on wikipedia) in 1600s? Frances empire in Canada is long gone - so why do French-Canadians/Quebec owe allegience to "the frogs?" I understand Canada has a Westminster style parliament - so isnt French Quebec part of that?
Another thing is that I really don't get the French Canadian & France/French thing? France was out of the picture in Canada (from what I saw on wikipedia) in 1600s? Frances empire in Canada is long gone - so why do French-Canadians/Quebec owe allegience to "the frogs?" I understand Canada has a Westminster style parliament - so isnt French Quebec part of that?
#53
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,370
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
This is exactly your problem - you're not up to date with Canadian history. A quick look up on Canadian history with Quebec will easily explain why French-speakers in Quebec don't particularly appreciate English-speakers and don't look highly to anyone of English commonwealth. As far as they're concerned, they're "pure laine" - 100% ancestry from the French pioneers who founded Quebec back in the 1600's.
Language, if you have not quite learned yet, is very much a political issue in Quebec. Language defines the person in Quebec.
The French language practically defines the French-speaking nation of Quebec. Yes, that's right - Quebec sees itself as a national separare from Canada. If you haven't yet learned yet, the majority of Quebecois francophones are fiercely passionate about preserving their French language and are willing to separate from the rest of Canada to preserve their unique French-speaking culture.
You, in their eyes, are a threat to the perseverence of their culture. They see the English language (and English-speaking immigrants) as a threat to their culture and everything they stand for. They don't see themselves as a part of the commonwealth. As far as they're concerned, they're victims of English colonialism, hence their desire to separate from Canada.
Language, if you have not quite learned yet, is very much a political issue in Quebec. Language defines the person in Quebec.
The French language practically defines the French-speaking nation of Quebec. Yes, that's right - Quebec sees itself as a national separare from Canada. If you haven't yet learned yet, the majority of Quebecois francophones are fiercely passionate about preserving their French language and are willing to separate from the rest of Canada to preserve their unique French-speaking culture.
You, in their eyes, are a threat to the perseverence of their culture. They see the English language (and English-speaking immigrants) as a threat to their culture and everything they stand for. They don't see themselves as a part of the commonwealth. As far as they're concerned, they're victims of English colonialism, hence their desire to separate from Canada.
Last edited by Lychee; Feb 16th 2009 at 4:09 am.
#54
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Formerly Montreal now Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 545
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
Note December's provincial elections, even the Parti Quebecois, the so called standard bearer of sovreignty had dropped the referendum subject in order to try and get elected.. The vast majority of the francophones (french speakers) that I know are apalled by the thought of Quebec separating. Of course they are proud of their language, good for them.
In Montreal the whole subject is becoming less and less relevant as the Allophone (Anglophone or Francophone) population expands through immigration. Much of this population doesn't really care one way or the other as they have their own language and often learn both French and English.
The next generation is also changing. My kids are Anglophone but are perfectly bilingual, many kids in their school are Francophone but are also perfectly bilingual. You would think then that language will not be such an issue in 15 or 20 years
#55
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
[QUOTE=montreal mike;7289048]I am astounded to read that the French from France have trouble being understood in Quebec. I am far more inclined to believe the reverse.
Hey Mike, pop back to blighty and all the traditional dialects, the tha's nt guinels have been replaced with kids abbreviations that r gtn soooo dfclt 2 ndstnd. I struggle to communicate with my own kids sometimes innit and dunnit lol
Hey Mike, pop back to blighty and all the traditional dialects, the tha's nt guinels have been replaced with kids abbreviations that r gtn soooo dfclt 2 ndstnd. I struggle to communicate with my own kids sometimes innit and dunnit lol
#56
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
They see the English language (and English-speaking immigrants) as a threat to their culture and everything they stand for. They don't see themselves as a part of the commonwealth. As far as they're concerned, they're victims of English colonialism, hence their desire to separate from Canada.
As much as I hate to see them split the country I do understand their position. I read that 40% of all Quebeckers are of Irish ancestry.
#57
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
In my humble opinion i'm more than happy to live alongside any nationality or language.
One question i do have though is if they separated from from Canada, how would they support their economy?? Just a curious question really.
One question i do have though is if they separated from from Canada, how would they support their economy?? Just a curious question really.
#58
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 284
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
Would some folk be (simply) suggesting to Quebecers; "Don't speak French as it's inconvenient for the rest if us."
#59
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Heritage Valley in Edmonton
Posts: 894
Re: Brit-haters in Quebec
I was 45 when I went to Montreal, before then I had never heard of the terms Francophone or Anglophone, I thought they were made up words.
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Formally Scotland. Now Bay of Quinte...Ontario
Posts: 2,466