Oakvillian

Thank you for that incisive comment - adds so much to the debate. Nothing like a little personal attack to spice things up a bit. And I thought moderators were supposed to be responsible forum members.

I know at least 2 Americans who choose to dissociate themselves from the US Establishment world-view by pretending to be Canadian when abroad. I know several others who do not, but Lionel's point wasn't that all Americans choose to disguise their nationality.

One acquaintance chose to pretend she was Canadian because she was fed up of explaining that her views were not necessarily those of her government, and that she was not in the UK as a personal emissary of GWB. It just became easier to say "no, actually, I'm from Canada." As the original article, however old, pointed out, nobody pays much attention to Canada so it stopped that conversation and allowed a more interesting one to start.

dbd33

This seems absurdly far fetched to me. Unless the American was already in the UK or Canada he or she would have no reason to think of posing as a Canadian. Even then I think few Americans assume foreigners to be so unsophisticated as to conflate nationality with support for the national government. If the American actually knew Canadians he or she would likely not pose as one for fear of being thought humourless and sanctimonious.

I think these Americans exist only in the Guardian.

Lionel_in_Ontario

Thanks Oakvillian.

I guess I should have thought more before my post - I didn't mean it as an anti-American post, I just used the wrong example to promote what I feel is good about Canada - as back in the UK I feel that many don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two countries.

I spent the St Patricks Day weekend in Chicago. I met some decent people that weekend. Sadly, I also had to deal with usual bunch of power-tripping, arrogant, ignorant neanderthals at the border - not a new experience.
Which is a shame, because their behaviour reinforces the "Team America" stereotype which I was alluding to, whereas the individual people I know in the US are good people.

Anyway, no more anti-American talk from me, given today's news :-(

Oakvillian

One was a regular Guardian reader - does that count?

Yes, they were both already in the UK, working for a multinational company in which Canadians, Merkans, and various flavours of Anglophone southern-hemispherites (NZ, Aus, SA, Zim, etc) coexisted (mostly) happily. The Canadian/American thing would usually come about in a pub or at a party after several ales and in boozy conversation with a third party.
The assumption was rather that the third party would know neither Americans nor Canadians and certainly not enough about either to have a sensible opinion. By that stage I don't think anyone was conflating anything.... but it was a strategy to avoid tedious conversations and circular arguments - that's all!

dbd33

An American Guardinista? Surely not.

Oakvillian

I'm happy to say I was moved to write to the TSA office in Dallas/Ft Worth to thank them for their exemplary attitude and behaviour towards myself and a bunch of colleagues the other week.

I was travelling back from a conference with a couple of Canadians, a Frenchman, and half a dozen Indians (including one Muslim and one Sikh) and we had had to change our travel plans at short notice - often a signal to get pulled at the security screen for the personal treatment. Needless to say, we all had that SSSSS entry on our boarding cards and had the pat-down-and-bag-search routine. All were treated with perfect good humour and cordiality, were apologised to for the inconvenience, and engaged in civilised conversation throughout. I was amazed and very pleasantly surprised.

Oh God, I've just thought... I hope I didn't get anyone into trouble by writing to thank them for their courtesy

Souvenir

I've also had the SSSSSSS treatment (in Phoenix). Not a major issue. I was travelling just with my citizenship card, which ain't machine-readable. The security people were unbelieveably polite about the whole thing. Almost apologetic.

The Americans pretending to be Canadians is somewhat overblown but it's not a total myth. When I still lived in London I worked with Canadians. Young ones. Ones that were likely to talk to people with the maple leaf on their backpack. From what they told me, the backpack and the nationality didn't always match.

The practice is probably far less common these days.

Souvenir

Agreed. That is an awful thing.

startwin

But it certainly does still exist. My O/H and I met a couple of young people from Dallas last year in a pub just off Leicester Square. Both had the Maple Leaf stitched to their backpacks, and both freely admitted they preferred the Brits to think they were Canadian. I think they were just tired of all the backlash of the Iraqi war so easier to avoid such discussions.

lee58uk

People like to talk bad about yanks, cos they always throw there toys out the pram ! i poke fun at them alot, but as for the shoulder to shoulder thing i would'nt think twice in jumping in a trench with them. or a canadian, ive always known what canada has done for us in WW1 and 2, they were good spitfire pilots, the americans take to much of the prase. the only time when i got p@@@ed off with them when they send out A10's and take out our troops and make out theres no tapes and dont want to even talk about it, just feel for the wifes. never mind this is'nt the place to moan.

dbd33

Where would people from Dallas get the idea of posing as a Canadians and where would they get their maple leaves? I think this is all a pose by Canadians pretending to be Americans pretending to be Canadians. Canada just doesn't register in the conciousness of Texans.

Atlantic Xpat

To be fair, Texans who have travelled to London are much more likely to be aware of Canada. Texans who have never left Texas are not. Mrs AX spent a fair amount of time hanging around the backpacking Canadian Expat / Maple Leaf in Convent Garden type crowd and she too recounts the wearing the maple leaf with pride stories. So I don't think it's an urban myth myself.

dbd33

Oh, I suppose there has been an instance, once. I just get worn down with all these "rah, rah, plucky downtrodden Canada" stories and with Canadians' relentless need to talk about America. Americans are less obsessed with America (that's actually how I tell them apart, if someone who sounds American talks for five minutes without mentioning the US or ice hockey then that's the American).

bad.andy

They sort of do, as a joke anyway at least.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...2554-8534r.htm

bad.andy

deangb

RE Novacastrian a) i was sent this by someone so took it as read b) i didnt edit anything - it was a moderator.

Next time i will do a general sensus of the leading posters on here before i post anything.