Originally Posted by kt0157

Err... unrestricted competition in wages "drives down the economy". Hmmn, I don't think so. Competition for wages makes it more viable to employ people and creates jobs. For sure, it's not pleasant for low-paid workers (competition is never pleasant to people who can't compete: ask a steel worker in the USA). But to employers, and anyone who consumes the products and services of said employers, it's great.

K.

Originally Posted by Hudman

Very easy to have a cheap shot at illegals without being in their shoes .. I find it very sad that awaiting immigrants or those here, have to have a dig at others who perhaps do not have the resources to go through legal routes.
Why on earth would other immigrants be angered with individual immigrant groups.

My validity as an immigrant is not tied up with someone Else's misfortune of coming here illegally, perhaps if you guys were happier with your lives you would not need someone to berate?

Originally Posted by montreal mike

I think you already acknowledge the other side of the coin when you say it's not pleasant for low paid workers. As to employing more people and creating jobs well it seems to me that it is more a case of existing jobs going to the illegals. As to what one pays the illegals sorry but I don't get a lump in my throat since they work under the table and thus can not possibly pay income taxes given the fact that officially they do not exist.

Originally Posted by montreal mike

didn't you get the sarcasm?

Originally Posted by Morwenna

I think the point is that the majority of "skilled workers" eg on this forum are not coming over here in order to get jobs as sales assistants and waiters, or to wash dishes and sweep floors etc. Many "home grown" Canadians will feel the same.

Those have entered the country illegally may be less choosy about the type of work they will accept, and probably are willing even to take a second or third job to get an adequate income. There are service industry jobs advertised wherever you look, in Calgary anyway, and many employers appear to find it difficult to fill these posts at the rates of pay people demand.

I see the result in the area of care support workers. I'm not suggesting that any of them are illegal, but many can hardly make themselves understood, and I'm afraid the standard of care is very variable. I'm not saying this is because they are immigrants (after all I am an immigrant myself), nor because they can't speak English well, but the shortage of available workers willing to work for the wage they offer makes it very difficult to find "good" people! Some of them are extremely good, kind and skilled workers, ...... but some are not!

Originally Posted by AnnetteM

M.Mike, the way this thread got sidetracked, and the responses you had to your original question, there's no way you'll get an informed debate on this. One of the dumbest responses I saw was "illegal immigrants are the best immigrants". A contradiction in terms, of course.

Originally Posted by dbd33

I'm afraid not. I thought your sentiments overblown but if, for example, you eat food grown in Canada you should show some gratitude to the people who make it possible for you to buy it.

Originally Posted by montreal mike

Then perhaps it is a problem with existing immigration policy which seems to place too much emphasis on bringing over skilled workers, professionals, and academics. I have heard this said but do not have the facts to back it up.

Originally Posted by montreal mike

I think you already acknowledge the other side of the coin when you say it's not pleasant for low paid workers. As to employing more people and creating jobs well it seems to me that it is more a case of existing jobs going to the illegals. As to what one pays the illegals sorry but I don't get a lump in my throat since they work under the table and thus can not possibly pay income taxes given the fact that officially they do not exist.

I too would be extremely tempted to work for less if my gross pay were, de facto, my net pay. But I do pay my fair shares of income taxes, EI and govt. pension plan premiums just like most others.

Originally Posted by kt0157

I'm not arguing that people should be able to work without paying taxes and bypassing all the immigration checks. It's just that it's not going to damage the economy. In fact, I rather suspect that the sclerotic Canadian economy is likely to benefit.

K.

Originally Posted by kt0157

I've heard a radical proposition for the UK, which would just as well apply to Canada: simply sell permits. A fixed number of permits per year, sold (for example) on EBay. That would very quickly solve all the issues of what is of value to Canada: employers and immigrants just put their money where their mouths are.

K.

Originally Posted by dbd33

My gross pay has been my net pay since I started earning more than $100,000 a year; that was in 1985. Tax reduction is a function of having enough income to pay accountants and lawyers more than one would pay in tax on the average wage. If I earned more, I would be able to pay negative tax due to efficient use of subsidies to my various companies. The Irvings McCains and Blacks of this world are not troubled by the tax bill because the system, at the top, is regressive.

I suppose one can say that an illegal immigrant is in a similar situation in that no tax is paid, but consider the case of the typical farm worker. He, or she, gets $3/hour for doing a dangerous job with no benefits and can only work when the crop is in season and the weather cooperates. If tax were suddenly levied the worker wouldn't have to pay it due to lack of income and would likely even get a GST rebate. I don't thinking taxing the poor is going to get us anywhere.

Originally Posted by montreal mike

For the life of me I can't see how the economy is any better off by having illegals who, even if they wanted to pay income taxes, can't

Originally Posted by montreal mike

But why hasn't the govt. acted on such a notion? Our immigration process is far from perfect. No secret there.

Originally Posted by montreal mike

The tax system already provides for a basic sum to be tax free. So I would favour filling in a return annually and being told no tax owing.

In your case I don't have the details but I would imagine since you use accountants/lawyers it is all legal and above board. Tax avoidance is legal whereas tax evasion isn't.