Sally

Nearly all middle class people here have illegal nannies, housekeepers and gardeners. Why not prosecte the employers?

montreal mike

Yes I agree. But I don't know if it is a criminal offence to employ illegals.

Judy in Calgary

According to CIC's website:

montreal mike

Problem is that work will flow to the cheapest and this has to have a negative effect on other bonafide immigrants and citizens. Also on law abiding businessmen. Working for far less than what is the normal going rate might be fine for the illegals but what does it to wage levels? Not to speak of employment prospects for those legally here. Also how can those who don't or won't hire illegals compete with businesses that do exactly the opposite?

Illegals may, de facto, not use the public health care system but also they pay nothing towards schools and other public services. The various govt. levels do not collect personal income taxes as these people officially don't even exist although govt. at certain levels might collect consumption taxes and property taxes.

As for illegals keeping out of trouble, well sorry I am unimpressed. Even bona fide immigrations will probably do likewise, at least until they are 'safe' and become citizens.

montreal mike

Thanks for clearing that up. I trust that dbd33 has also taken note?

dbd33

Vaguely. It doesn't have much to do with actual working conditions as it's about SINs, someone employing a bar tender or sewing machine operator , for example, knows there's no SIN to ask for.

A little background:

My brother worked here for eight years or so before becoming legal, for much of that time he lived in this house and so I met his bosses (twenty-five years incorporated in Canada, no work permits) and many of his colleagues (none of them legal, their big fear was being busted for something silly like drunk driving and being deported, it'd usually take a week or so before they'd be back) their whole industry operates on the assumption of illegality. He worked for an Irish firm, their rivals were Portuguese and Jamaican firms, no one working for, or owning, any of these firms had documentation for Canada. When there was a big bust they all went off to Boston and worked there; illegal here, illegal there, nature of the business.

For a year or so my oh has been working here, officially she's a tourist but, in her business, most no one is legal anyway. Her lack of a SIN is neither here nor there.

Illegal immigrants are more important to the country than legal ones because, while legal immigrants arrive on the basis that a salaried government employee thinks they'll find a job, illegal ones come because they already have a job offered by someone who's invested, someone who's going to pay them.

dbd33

What you're missing is that Canada, like the US, runs on illegal immigrants; it's not a new idea to get some illegals but the bedrock of the economy. If there were no illegals new houses would not get built, crops would not get picked, beer would not be served. Legal immigrants are nice to have but they tend not to be interested in grunt work, they'd rather drive cabs and complain about not being doctors than dig holes. Someone has to do the work to keep the economy going and that's not the people blessed by the CIC.

montreal mike

Well that is a point of view. I am not sure I necessarily can agree with you. But on the other hand I do not have any basis to refute your assertion.

You may well be correct, in part or in whole, but does that make it right?

I think not.

I would imagine many posters and lurkers here who played by the rules and who waited patiently to come over and who came through the front door would not be flattered at such a depiction or inference.

Somehow I get the message from your post above that Canada should be grateful to these illegals. They are doing us all a huge favour?

dbd33

Yes, that's right.

montreal mike

didn't you get the sarcasm?

AnnetteM

M.Mike, the way this thread got sidetracked, and the responses you had to your original question, there's no way you'll get an informed debate on this. One of the dumbest responses I saw was "illegal immigrants are the best immigrants". A contradiction in terms, of course. I cannot believe that attitude in a country where the majority of the population is made up of "legal" immigrants who followed all the rules to get here. It really is a put-down to the rest of us. Illegal immigrants drive down the economy when they are willing to undercut everyone else in pay. They exploit other illegals and so the cycle continues. By the very fact that they have to keep a low profile they cannot contribute much to the community. My daughter in law was once "illegal", but only because she wouldn't leave my son, who was literally at death's door. She spent two years fighting to stay with him, and the rules seems archaic and totally lacking in compassion, but she did follow them. During that time she could not work, therefore could not contribute. Eventually, she won the battle, and now is a PR, is grateful to be here and is doing everything she can by way of volunteer work to give back to the community.

Illegal immigration as has been discussed on here seems to be a growing industry, and condoned by legal immigrants, to boot. But of course, only those that are already here, and not waiting and working to make it here.

montreal mike

Yes agreed. I tried to make those very same points as you just iterated. I hope those reading this thread can understand or appreciate all this. I am not saying they are morons, far from it, but I am suggesting a hell of a lot of apathy at this forum.

It strikes me incredible that there's no great outrage (anger, annoyance, disgust, however one would characterise it) against these illegals and the lack of response so far seems to be almost of gesture of condoning it.

I guess I will never understand human nature!

kt0157

Err... unrestricted competition in wages "drives down the economy". Hmmn, I don't think so. Competition for wages makes it more viable to employ people and creates jobs. For sure, it's not pleasant for low-paid workers (competition is never pleasant to people who can't compete: ask a steel worker in the USA). But to employers, and anyone who consumes the products and services of said employers, it's great.

K.

Hudman

Very easy to have a cheap shot at illegals without being in their shoes, take the example of Nafta's effect on Mexico.
I find it very sad that awaiting immigrants or those here, have to have a dig at others who perhaps do not have the resources to go through legal routes.
Why on earth would other immigrants be angered with individual immigrant groups.
Its the Governments of the west, predominantly the US that has created this situation, as for driving down wages I have not seen many Canadians keen to take the grunt work as Dbd says the system is there ready to use them, whys that.
My validity as an immigrant is not tied up with someone Else's misfortune of coming here illegally, perhaps if you guys were happier with your lives you would not need someone to berate?

Alberta_Rose

I think the point is that the majority of "skilled workers" eg on this forum are not coming over here in order to get jobs as sales assistants and waiters, or to wash dishes and sweep floors etc. Many "home grown" Canadians will feel the same.

Those have entered the country illegally may be less choosy about the type of work they will accept, and probably are willing even to take a second or third job to get an adequate income. There are service industry jobs advertised wherever you look, in Calgary anyway, and many employers appear to find it difficult to fill these posts at the rates of pay people demand.

I see the result in the area of care support workers. I'm not suggesting that any of them are illegal, but many can hardly make themselves understood, and I'm afraid the standard of care is very variable. I'm not saying this is because they are immigrants (after all I am an immigrant myself), nor because they can't speak English well, but the shortage of available workers willing to work for the wage they offer makes it very difficult to find "good" people! Some of them are extremely good, kind and skilled workers, ...... but some are not!