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Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Old Sep 9th 2014, 7:47 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by Shirtback
Yes, quite right. I'm not sure where my 10-15 cord brain fart came from, but I agree it was exaggerated - I was motivated enough to check with the ex, who reckons it averaged out at between 5 & 8 per winter, once the insulation was completed, for 2 wood stoves (one of which also heated water) in a ~3500 sf house + another in a ~600 sf workshop/garage/barn.



Hi Yemelade. My TLR post that got lost yesterday, resumes as follows (& it will still be tl:dr):

I don't think there are many sarcastic posts on this thread. Some of us, myself included, tend towards "worst case scenarios", not because we're mocking, but because we care that newcomers arrive prepared.

I lived 16 years in the Qc backwoods, with a largish veggie garden, chickens, & 2 - eventually 3 - young children who grew up there. On what most posters here would consider a very low income. I originally intended to work from home, but ended up adding a full time (outside the home) job.

I'd respectfully suggest not underestimating the time/energy/fatigue that harvesting/transporting/storing & using wood to heat takes. Ditto livestock (even just chickens) & veggie production/management.

Re children: "free" public school requires $$ for textbooks, stationery, various "funds", "supervisory" fees (depending on province), all outings.

Very few sports/extra-curricular activities organised by schools. So more dollars. And time + transport to & from, especially in rural areas. I had one -hellish - summer where I had 3 sprogs in 3 different baseball teams. It was an organisational & transport nightmare. 5 nights a week, & almost all day Saturday between matches & training. Yes, by carpooling with other parents, I managed, but some matches involved an hour drive, one way.

(I'll cut the description of the following year where one child went to regional level & added in 2 other disciplines - I actually cut my working hours, & hence income, to cope).

Then there was the winter where we had under-average snowfall (good insulation) & extreme cold. And the evacuation plumbing blocked & froze. Then, following a medical emergency which put one of the children in hospital, leading to not being at home for 48 hours +, the basement pipes started to freeze & burst. Then the well pump froze, & the local plumber was airlifted to hospital for an emergency quadruple heart bypass. I'm the first to admit that this is highly unusual, & that there was a domino effect of exceptional circumstances, but it happened.

I learned a lot about plumbing that year. & about having back-up heat sources. & sheer exhaustion.

(Did I mention the Ice Storm?)

I really, truly, am not trying to be negative. Just a realist. With hindsight, I'll probably go back to semi self sufficiency, but I'm no longer responsible for anyone other than me

S
Hi,

Ah no like I say, I'm not saying everyone is being negative, I appreciate the honesty, and that's the whole reason I started this thread because I didn't want to move to NS, only to realise I needed health insurance or schools weren't free or what not. Sometimes there are blatant flaws in your plans that requires an experienced set of eyes to look at, and show you where you're going wrong, and I've appreciated all of the constructive and honest advice I've received so far.

I think you're definitely right on the farm work front. I was only just talking to my aunt a couple hours ago who was explaining how much time she spends on her chickens, and the costs involved. She was talking about something called red mite that had infested her coop, meaning she's having to fork out for a new one: it's things like this that I need to consider.


I think for the mean time, we're going to find somewhere rural in the uk (or as rural as we can) and have kids and a small farm here. We're very keen to pursue aquaponics so we'll give that a try, and if we still feel strongly about NS we will organise taking a 4 month break from our full time jobs here and go live the "dream" for a while. That way we will get a taste of what life would be like. For all I know, farming and taxi-ing my kids everywhere will be hell on earth, so perhaps it's not the best thing to sell up and move to NS feet first.

I value your response and time, thanks!
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 7:49 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by yemelade
Could you please highlight or specify this supposed name calling please? I've not once issued a personal insult or called anybody a name, I was merely replying in a similar manner to replies I have received thus far. Therefore my friend if YOU don't like it, please heed your own advice and ignore my comments if you wish
*sigh* You haven't been replying in a similar manner at all, you've insulted others who've taken the time to try and help you. Calling somebody petty (i.e. 'marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views') is hardly friendly.

As I said above, you may not agree with their views, but they're entitled to express them without you jumping down their throats. Nobody here has insulted you or done anything other than offer advice - you may not agree with that advice, but that's not the point.

As for ignoring your comments, sadly as I'm a mod I don't get the luxury of ignoring anybody.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Sep 9th 2014 at 7:52 pm.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
*sigh* You haven't been replying in a similar manner at all, you've insulted others who've taken the time to try and help you. Calling somebody petty (i.e. 'marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views') is hardly friendly.

As I said above, you may not agree with their views, but they're entitled to express them without you jumping down their throats. Nobody here has insulted you or done anything other than offer advice - you may not agree with that advice, but that's not the point.

As for ignoring your comments, sadly as I'm a mod I don't get the luxury of ignoring anybody.
I have been replying very similarly, actually. I tend to refrain from attempting to use sarcasm on the internet as I'm aware that many people take it differently to how it is intended or it can be hurtful on occasion for the recipient, but I have been replying very similarly in fact, with my . To me, these comments:

dbd33: Is it intended that the children are allowed to go feral, like barn cats?
NovocastrianL: Good that one of you wants to work "one or two days a week" but good luck with finding any paid employment in rural NS.

Are very petty, and I don't even think they sound sarcastic so not too sure what the point of them were. No harm is asking a direct question or phrasing something politely, you know, like civil folk.

& I don't agree nor disagree with anyone. I've not lived it, I can't be sure on any of the figures I've given as my primary vision, that's why I'm on here to see how other people have lived and with how much money in a similar life style. I do value the constructive and polite responses I have received so far, and they have helped me on my journey but there is no need for pettiness .

Ah to be a mod ay?

Last edited by yemelade; Sep 9th 2014 at 8:04 pm.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

One of those is sarcastic, yes, but certainly not insulting. Good old British banter and sarcasm is quite rife around these parts, given it's a forum for British expats! The other I think is just quite true given the high unemployment rate in NS, particularly among those without Canadian experience.

No need to get upset over comments like that, that's all I'm saying - they're still helpful and constructive.

I think your idea of living rurally in the UK before moving is a great one, as I said above I live sort of rurally (not on mains water/gas/sewage, animals that we eat, veggies, all electricity provided by renewable sources etc) in the UK but unlike your planned NS rural living we do at least have the option of public transport and shops.

Living in NS for a few months isn't realistic though unless you are Canadian citizens or PR's? If not, then you'd need to get a visa first and move properly.

Good luck.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:25 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Hi again.

Please try not to be offended, we're a 'ornery & opinionated bunch here (which is what Ch'oompa is trying to tell you !)

I think your idea of trying this out in the UK first is great. If you do decide on a recce trip to Canada, this might interest you:

http://www.wwoof.ca/home

Just out of curiosity, why NS, & what visa would you come on?

S
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
One of those is sarcastic, yes, but certainly not insulting. Good old British banter and sarcasm is quite rife around these parts, given it's a forum for British expats! The other I think is just quite true given the high unemployment rate in NS, particularly among those without Canadian experience.

No need to get upset over comments like that, that's all I'm saying - they're still helpful and constructive.

I think your idea of living rurally in the UK before moving is a great one, as I said above I live sort of rurally (not on mains water/gas/sewage, animals that we eat, veggies, all electricity provided by renewable sources etc) in the UK but unlike your planned NS rural living we do at least have the option of public transport and shops.

Living in NS for a few months isn't realistic though unless you are Canadian citizens or PR's? If not, then you'd need to get a visa first and move properly.

Good luck.
Well possibly it's a difference in personalities, or the internet obscuring the way one takes things, but I took both of those as insults. Sorry if you felt I insulted you, that was not my intention, I think I was just getting angry that that this whole thread is pretty much negativity, but oh well :P We live and learn!

Before considering NS, we were looking at the different UK based things we could do that were sort of on the way to us being self sufficient. Do you know anything about boreholes? We're considering this. And if you don't mind me asking, could you inform me of the way in which we could achieve a free form of sewage *removal?* don't know what the correct term for that would be... Also, not to sound really stupid, but is it legal to raise pigs for meat over here? I was led to believe that you could buy piglets, but they needed to be taken to an abattoir for processing - we'd like to be able to do all of this ourselves but google doesn't seem to be providing the answers we are looking for. In truth, one of the reasons we considered NS was because we felt restricted as to how self sufficient we could be in the UK in terms of meat. Vegetables was never going to be a problem, but it's not as if you can acquire a gun and shoot a pig over here is it?

Thanks again
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:33 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by yemelade
I didn't want to move to NS, only to realise I needed health insurance or schools weren't free or what not.
Sorry, Im not paying attention here at the back.

Did someone point out that provincial health care does not generally extend to paying for dental care and prescription drugs?
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:36 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by Shirtback
Hi again.

Please try not to be offended, we're a 'ornery & opinionated bunch here (which is what Ch'oompa is trying to tell you !)

I think your idea of trying this out in the UK first is great. If you do decide on a recce trip to Canada, this might interest you:

http://www.wwoof.ca/home

Just out of curiosity, why NS, & what visa would you come on?

S
Hi Shirtback,

I'm new to the forum, so like I say I think I've just picked things up wrong! It's different when you talk to someone face to face, you can judge whether they're being serious or not but it's a bit harder on the internet!

My partner has family in Canada, who frequent NS on their holidays, so that's why we thought of NS originally. Then, after I saw the house prices, this enticed us more. We were thinking of coming over on a business visa, if not it would be the skilled worker visa (I think that's what we read) and I'd have to re-register in NS as an OT. But in all honesty, we've not thought that far ahead! I just wanted to get a bit of a flavour as to how we would fair on the income we'd be guaranteed, nothing is concrete yet and we've not researched anything enough for us to consider anything seriously yet.

Thanks
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:38 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by iaink
Sorry, Im not paying attention here at the back.

Did someone point out that provincial health care does not generally extend to paying for dental care and prescription drugs?
Actually, no. :P

So we WOULD need health insurance?

I've definitely realised that 20k is not enough to sustain a family.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:39 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Genuinely I think exploring self sufficiency in the UK is an extremely sensible idea. If you can't achieve in a country where you are knowledgeable about the infra structure then I'm not sure how you could do it in a country where everything is new.

Surely the point of self sufficiency is minimal expenditure. How on earth does moving country achieve this idealism? Plus I'm still interested in the unanswered question of how you are planning to achieve a visa to live in the country?
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by Tirytory
Genuinely I think exploring self sufficiency in the UK is an extremely sensible idea. If you can't achieve in a country where you are knowledgeable about the infra structure then I'm not sure how you could do it in a country where everything is new.

Surely the point of self sufficiency is minimal expenditure. How on earth does moving country achieve this idealism? Plus I'm still interested in the unanswered question of how you are planning to achieve a visa to live in the country?
Read above^ we've not considered this far ahead yet, like I say I just wanted to get a feel for how we'd fair. We did do an online test though at some point last year just out of interest, we we scored enough points for the one we'd attempted but I can't remember which one we sort of pretended to apply for now to inform you.

Wildlife in the UK is not only minimal, but hunting is very restrictive. In canada, my partner could source deer and fish with some flexi rules, but over here he can't just go out shooting a deer! Same with sourcing wood.

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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:45 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by yemelade
I think I was just getting angry that that this whole thread is pretty much negativity, but oh well
Hate to point it out, but there might be a reason for that! If people are suggesting you couldn't survive on $20k a year in rural NS as a family and that it may not be practical, they're not saying it just to rain on your parade........

Originally Posted by yemelade
Do you know anything about boreholes?
Not a thing I'm afraid. You mean for water or a ground source heat pump? Our GSHP's aren't on bore holes.

Originally Posted by yemelade
And if you don't mind me asking, could you inform me of the way in which we could achieve a free form of sewage *removal?*
I've no idea how you'd do it for free, we have a sewage treatment plant which needs emptying approx every 3-4 years and costs about £100 a time.

Originally Posted by yemelade
Also, not to sound really stupid, but is it legal to raise pigs for meat over here? I was led to believe that you could buy piglets, but they needed to be taken to an abattoir for processing - we'd like to be able to do all of this ourselves but google doesn't seem to be providing the answers we are looking for. In truth, one of the reasons we considered NS was because we felt restricted as to how self sufficient we could be in the UK in terms of meat. Vegetables was never going to be a problem, but it's not as if you can acquire a gun and shoot a pig over here is it?
Acquiring a gun isn't an issue, you do need a gun licence but that's not too onerous. And yes, you'd have to send the pigs off for slaughter, but that's not complicated either from what I understand. Doesn't NS have the same rules re: slaughter of animals the size of sheep/pigs?

We don't have pigs yet, our only food comes from chickens/ducks/pheasant/partridge and our orchard and veggie patch. Plus Costco for the essentials of course!
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:47 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by yemelade
We were thinking of coming over on a business visa, if not it would be the skilled worker visa (I think that's what we read) and I'd have to re-register in NS as an OT.
As I think was mentioned in your last thread, the Skilled Worker system is changing completely in January, so if you qualify now and are sure you want to move then you should definitely apply now. The test you did last year is already out of date, and you may not be eligible next year........

Not sure what business visa you mean, do you mean the Self Employed route or the Start Up?

Last edited by christmasoompa; Sep 9th 2014 at 8:50 pm.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by yemelade
Read above^ we've not considered this far ahead yet, like I say I just wanted to get a feel for how we'd fair. We did do an online test though at some point last year just out of interest, we we scored enough points for the one we'd attempted but I can't remember which one we sort of pretended to apply for now to inform you.

Wildlife in the UK is not only minimal, but hunting is very restrictive. In canada, my partner could source deer and fish with some flexi rules, but over here he can't just go out shooting a deer! Same with sourcing wood.

But surely you can't move country to achieve self sufficiency for those problems. They seem really minor. I'm sure there are plenty of UK folks achieving minimal expenditure self sufficiency. Can you imagine the amount of money you'd need to actually move and get a visa and how long that would keep you going or be a nest egg in the UK?!!!
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 8:49 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: Attempting Self Sufficiency in NS - how much additional income?

Originally Posted by yemelade
So we WOULD need health insurance?
You'd be covered under provincial healthcare, but as Iaink said, that wouldn't cover dental or prescription medicines. So unlike the UK, where you'd pay the standard £7 or whatever it is for a prescription, you'd pay the actual cost of the drugs. And just hope to goodness that your kids don't need braces (if they do, that'll put a big dent in that $20k!).

There's info in the Wiki on healthcare if you want to read up on it. HTH.
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