Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

What do you define as "not working"? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the vaccine would not stop you getting covid, but that the effects of of it would be less than if you were not vaccinated. In addition it also would not stop you from spreading it.


We shall have to see what changes occur. I suspect the the exemption for trips ≤ 72 hours not requiring a negative test will be dropped. That is a shame as I popped down to Buffalo over the weekend for the first time since March last year, and was planning on going back down for Christmas, so that may not happen. I'd also quite like to pop back to England and see my family in person, something that I have not done for nearly three years. I'm not about to try and find some sneaky workaround to avoid any rules that are put into place, so it'll just mean waiting a bit longer.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

"Not working" as in not "ending the pandemic." We're almost going to be in the same spot as we were this time last year with no vaccine, in terms of case numbers, hospitalizations, and restrictions.

I agree - I never believed the vaccine would end the pandemic. But, that is what the politicians promised in order to coerce people into getting it.

It is indeed preventing hospitalization and death, which means that according to the science there is no reason to implement any more restrictions, yet here we are implementing more restrictions. It makes no sense.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...cron-1.6286656


0.14% positivity rate returning vaccinated travellers. 0.63% for unvaccinated. Yet we are still putting "all options on the table" when considering the return of hotel quarantine, home quarantine, and travel restrictions.


Omicron is already pretty much the dominant strain, which means it will continue to spread regardless of travel restrictions, yet travelers are once again going to be the scapegoat.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Changes look like just re-implementing an "advisory" against travel. Which really means nothing, except maybe in a week they will re-implement real restrictions and then say "We told you not to travel" :rolleyes:

My travel insurance is now in effect regardless of government travel warnings due to covid.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

The dream of travel should be ended or at least altered. Tourism accounts for 8% of global greenhouse gas emissions ( carbonbrief.org) so we shouldn't be gallivanting around.

As for the virus the farthest we've been in the two years is 200km, like many older we haven't been out much, avoiding risk and or the unvaccinated so it's pretty annoying to read that you only got vaccinated for blatantly selfish reasons

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Lol. Can't win with you covid doomers. Anything other then believing 100% in the pandemic science and the vaccine is met with self righteous commentary. At least I got vaccinated. My reasons/motives shouldn't really matter if the vaccine is as effective as it's supposed to be. :) (which it isnt.)

Greenhouse gas is the gov'ts problem. We can have electric planes, maybe that will help just like electric cars. :rolleyes:

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Bats - did you not travel to UK frequently pre-pandemic? I've been on this forum awhile so I would remember. So let's maybe avoid being hypocritical. ;)

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Bats emigrated to Canada via a carbon neutral transatlantic crossing :lol:

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

:goodpost:

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

This is true. I traveled to spend time with my 90 year old mother and will still go and visit her, I think helping her when I can is essential. No flying off to the sun or cruising, the thought of that fills me with horror anyway so I wouldn't have to struggle with any principles for that one.
​​​​​​Re cently we've all become much more aware of climate change and how our actions affect that so how we behaved in the past might well be different to how we behave now.



Yes we rowed across and up the St Lawrence. It was quite the journey.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

But not travelling - i.e. decrease in tourism - also has a huge impact on the economics of many countries... resulting in poverty for some.

https://wttc.org/Research/Economic-Impact

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

You told me to leave you alone so it would help if you don't answer my posts

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Using your argument though, ALL flying is damaging to the environment. You can't pick and choose which is good and which is bad.

Hate to break it to you, but your actions are not going to reverse the course of climate change singlehandedly. We are all doomed as the majority of greenhouse gases are emitted by China and they do not give a rat's arse about anybody else. So anything we do as the western world, CANZUSAUSUKEU , will be overshadowed by the tonnes of emissions emitted by China almost like they are laughing in our face.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

:nod:

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

"Politicians are never there to do things for you, they are there to do things to you", - remember this every time they come up with new and ridiculous travel restrictions for the vaccinated.

Yes, I am aware that the vaccines are the only way out of this, but also, if it wouldn't be for the freedom to travel, I wouldn't even be bothered to get vaccinated.

Politicians won't get very far with "advisories" and they know it and so do we all. It's like a property tax increase to be called "advisory to pay more".

Yes, agreed, this statement means nothing, but it can be seen as a warning for re-implementing quarantine with the usual fascist threats of 5 years jail time for non-compliance, or 500 K fines.

It's just a matter of time until Ford says "I still see too many airplanes arriving at Pearson".

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

I am about to cancel our long-planned train trip across Canada for a resumption of Christmas with family, because of the concern about this next wave of Covid, and especially of the Omicron variant.

Yes,I know that we are both vaccinated.

Yes, I know that the train has the same restrictions as required for travel on planes domestically or internationally.

Yes, I know hotels have safety protocols in place.

What I do not know is how many people I pass in the stations or hotel lobbies are vaccinated.

Nor do I know how many on the train or around me are vaccinated but have contracted Covid, Delta or Omicron and are asymptomatic BUT contagious.

What I do know is that when I read and hear scientists and people I trust saying Do Not Travel unless it is essential, then I should listen, read and understand why they are saying that.

In this case, numbers of cases are soaring in many provinces, including Ontario, Quebec, the Atlantic provinces, and BC .

Anyway, what is essential????????

As an aside, why have Ontario and Quebec always been having such problems in controlling infection. I know they are the largest provinces, population-wise, but that alone does not seem possible.

So, we're being cautious, staying home to protect ourselves and others, instead of being selfish and thinking only of our pleasure and desire.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

I think that's the wrong way of thinking, or more, how politicians want you to think, not common sense. It's not travel, but more behaviour. You could get infected right on your doorstep or within your community as easily as on any kind of trip to wherever.

The only thing that you can do in terms of being cautious, is vaccination, most notably 3 times, mask wearing and hand washing.

At some point any of us will be infected in one way or another, so high infection rates don't bother me at all, - it's the mild symptoms and not needing an ICU bed which are the important factors.

At the point where we are now, we're all more likely of dying of cancer than of Covid 19.

There is absolutely no need for politically mandated scaremongering.

Lawmakers should rather implement a mandatory vaccination policy ( only exception medial reasons ) and not bother with travel restrictions or the cost of enforcing that or debates of what is to be deemed essential and what not.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

This has always been the case.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Well you're probably right but i prefer to hope that we can do something, that if we each do something then the combined effect will help.

it's not a question of choosing good flying vs bad, but not of not flying if we don't have to do so. Of choosing better ways to travel. You mentioned backpacking round Europe, great idea, get a train pass and just follow your nose. Flying out for stag hen/parties would be a no, you can get drunk and throw up just as easily at home.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

Anyway, i'm thinking this thread has gone a little off topic for something outside of the Maple Leaf. Let's keep the virtue signalling and debate about how serious the pandemic is / vaccine mandates etc to the main Covid thread.

:focus:

At this point anecdotally other then the renewed travel advisory and increased arrival testing we aren't seeing any new restrictions. The proposed restrictions of 100% arrival testing aren't even in play, it is still randomized and it is also random whether people are being told to quarantine.

I'll keep the thread updated with new info as/when it comes out.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

'Travel' is a very far reaching matter. To me, it is one of the joys of life and I enjoy it greatly. New places, new environments, new food, new people and to just wipe it away saying the 'dream of travel should be ended' is very draconian.

Where do you draw the line between a trip to a new place for things such as walking, hiking, museums, new food versus a week long drink and drugs bender I could be anywhere trip to Magaluf/Cancun/Dayton/Ibiza. Is one acceptable and the other not.

Since March 2020, I haven't been past Toronto or Montreal or Algonquin Park. I managed to not be in the USA in the Trump era but did travel to the UK, Alberta/BC, France and Italy in that time. Since March 2020 none of that but once the numbers are down in terms of Covid etc I can't wait to travel again. We have the money and for us it is money well spent. Many long standing memories for myself, my wife and our immediate families are based on travel.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

I think you're too optimistic on this. Politicians and law makers are always creative when it comes to making lives miserable. It wouldn't surprise me if they are going back to a 14 day quarantine mandate for the vaccinated, mandatory and overpriced hotel, or home isolation, we don't know.

The thing is also that the cost of the vaccine is negligible compared to everything else, the cost testing or PCR tests, upon arrival higher and a 14 day quarantine is also economically devastating.

Today I received an e-mail from some Canadians overseas website


Dear Canadian,

You are receiving this email because you are registered with the Government of Canada’s Registration of Canadians Abroad (ROCA) service.

In an attempt to limit the spread of (COVID-19), specifically the new Omicron variant, the Government of Canada has re-instated a Global Travel Advisory to avoid all non-essential travel outside of Canada until further notice..

• Find out what commercial options are still available to return to Canada. Consider returning to Canada earlier than planned if these options are becoming more limited.
• Ensure that you have sufficient finances and necessities, including medication, in case your travels are disrupted.

Most governments have implemented special entry and exit restrictions for their territory. Before travelling, verify if the local authorities of both your current location and destinations have implemented any specific restrictions related to this situation and consider your transit points.

Restrictions imposed could include:

• Entry bans, particularly for non-residents
• Exit bans
• Quarantines of 14 days or more upon arrival, regardless of where you are arriving from
• Health screenings
• Border closures
• Airport closures
• Flight suspensions

Additional restrictions can be imposed suddenly. You should not depend on the Government of Canada for assistance related to changes to your travel plans.

• Monitor the media for the latest information
• Contact your airline or tour operator to determine if the situation will disrupt your travel plans
• Contact the nearest foreign diplomatic office for information on destination-specific restrictions

Continue to consult the latest travel advice and entry requirements related to COVID-19 from the Government of Canada.

The Public Health Agency of Canada is closely monitoring the situation and Global Affairs Canada will provide updates as more information becomes available. Canadians should follow the advice of local health authorities and take precautions to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including frequent handwashing, practicing proper cough and sneeze etiquette, and monitoring your health.

The decision to travel is your choice and you are responsible for your personal safety abroad. The Government of Canada takes the safety and security of Canadians abroad very seriously. It provides credible and timely information in its Travel Advice to enable you to make well-informed decisions regarding your travel or stay abroad.

All travellers whose final destination is Canada are required to submit their information electronically through ArriveCAN before they board their flight.

Canadians in need of emergency consular assistance should contact their nearest Canadian office or contact the Emergency Watch and Response Centre in Ottawa directly at +1 613 996 8885 (collect calls are accepted where available). An e-mail can also be sent to [email protected].

For complete contact details of our Canadian offices abroad, please click here.

If you have completed your trip and have no intention to return in the near future, simply modify your file here or you may send an email to [email protected].

We encourage you to stay connected with the latest travel advice and advisories at www.travel.gc.ca. Please share this important information with other Canadians in your area.

Global Affairs Canada.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

+1.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

:goodpost:

But unlike Gozit, I think this is a good post for what was said BEFORE the last 2 sentences.

I fully support the idea of travel, we also have the money to go wherever we want, and many many wonderful memories of trips all over the world, and consider it well spent as well as time well spent.

BUT not since 2019.

and never to the US in the Trump era!

We actually have not been outside the Lower Mainland since we got home in January 2019. Not because of lack of money, but because it has seemed to be idiotic to put ourselves and others in danger.

Once we can travel safely, and without the risk of having to quarantine on our return home or get stuck elsewhere, then roll on the travel, the meals, the events, etc.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

The thing is, you can travel safely.

Politicians want us not to travel, and for non compliance they have all sorts of nasty ideas in mind, costly testing, 14 day quarantine or 500 K plus fines for non-compliance. However that's totally the wrong approach and it certainly won't stop the pandemic, or decrease infections and makes a mockery of those who've taken the jab exactly for the reason to roam around freely again.

A look at the vaccination tracker for Canada would give you an idea of the problem:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7583050/c...avirus-canada/

ON and QC with a meager 80% vaccination rate and AB and SK even less, in the mid 70ies.

Regarding Covid 19 infection cases, ICU beds are to over 90% occupied with unvaccinated patients one can easily do his / her own calculations how many will end up in hospital. ( the rest of th 10% with a Covid 19 infection who are vaccinated and need an ICU bed do have some kind of previous medical history )

Why should the vaccinated Canadians pay for that cost, plus deal with all these ridiculous travel-restrictions, and then there is the cost to the economy, factoring in all the cost for not being open?

Politicians should rather look at their own failure, like why isn't the vaccination rate in Canada close to 100%? Why are some still refusing the vaccine at a cost to others?

At, say 98% or 99%, or 100% at best, we all couldn't care less about Covid 19 and really declare the pandemic as over.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/omi...ghts-1.6289497


Make it make sense, somebody please.

So now we are loosening restrictions on africa (good as I don't support Q Hotel or Q at all) ... but now people who cross the land border will need to pay $$$$$$ for a rapid PCR test to come back to Canada, even if only gone for 3-4 hours. How exactly is that going to stop this rise in infection?

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

We all make our own judgment as to whether we can travel safely, whether that is within our own province, across other provinces, or internationally.

If you are like me, I pay little attention to what the politicians say, I look at the scientific evidence.

That is far more accurate than any politico ............. and usually when the pollies say "don't travel", the science to say it would be very unwise to travel is way ahead of them.

You only have to look at Boris, Biden, Ford, and Trudeau, to see how they follow what their scientists have been saying for days.

Just a little bit of scientific knowledge, and understanding about how viruses work, is needed.

Covid is a corona virus, as is the common cold and flu ................ only much worse from infection rate to effects, just as flu is much worse than the common cold.

Ever think about why there is annual vaccination against flu, but not the common cold?

The flu virus a) mutates every year, and b) is a worse sickness than the common cold, possibly leading to death for elderly, very young and compromised.

Just as the covid virus and its variants are mutating regularly.

Hopefully, the variants will become weaker in effects, and the scientists will able to produce new vaccines to respond to the new variants, so that we can have annual covid vaccination as well as flu.

Until then ................... listen to the scientists, and NOT those on social media, but learn to read scientific reports and papers, even if you just skim them.

Re: Arrival testing mandated again
 

If you're a scientist, it doesn't matter if you look ugly in front of a camera and you are verbally not so well versed and speaking with a heavy accent, - especially in medicine, if you're good at your job as a scientist you'll always have a job and others will be thankful for that.

Politicians on the other hand, are often overpaid, worried about how they look on camera, and want to get re-elected at any cost. They don't work by scientific evidence, but by ratings and polls and what the public or a majority in their believe of the public thinks. So, if there is a sports stadium full of fans, some wearing masks some not is seen by the public as less harmful than travel, they're having a go at travel. And if politics is having a go at travel, we know, they mostly blame aviation, not so much trains, even though it's known that the virus spread more on trains rather than within airplanes..... So if the polls say there should be testing at the airport and further forms and bureaucracy upon entry into Canada, politicians will do it, no matter if it produces long queues at the airport or not, if chances for infections are increased due to queues at the airport.

Ford as a provincial election coming up soon, Trudeau moved one forward in hopes of his favour, and he was wrong and the cost of that election could easily have been spend on any covid health care related matter. Boris in the UK is under pressure and who knows what Biden is up to, given his age.

Also there is some encouraging news from South Africa: ( Whether it's too early to call, or uncertain if the numbers are to be trusted, is probably another discussion... )

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...iant-1.4759122