Cape Blue

Hmmm, a web site called "windturbinenoisehealthhumanrights.com" and a report by the same group, hardly an independent report I suspect.

Anyway, even this report says don't build within 2 km of housing - I am not sure i want to live within 2km of a coal fired power station or a nuclear reactor so I am not sure what you are trying to say.

Cape Blue

I can't agree that a modern wind farm looks like an American prison - http://www.bwea.com/media/photo/nwp/rgb/novar2.jpg . I used to live a few miles from a new wind farm in southern Spain and as someone else said, find them quite beautiful. All depends upon how they are sited and how the power is transmitted away.

Regarding the 10,000 windmills this is not exactly correct. I didn't want to get into the exact details when I posted the 2,000 number, I just wanted to show it was no where near the 1 million to 100 million that had been stated.

There is a capacity factor involved with windmills (which is around 40% for newer designed windmills that are well placed, and not the 20% stated in the email from 2001), however there is also a capacity factor with coal & nuclear plants which is often forgotten and can range from 50% upwards. In reality the number of windmills to replace Pickering would be anywhere from 3,500 to 4,500 depending upon their size and location.

I would also point out that the Pickering windmill is installed at the nuclear plant and is used as PR by the company - partly to show how green they are and partly to show what limited power is available and how much better we would all be having more nuclear, which is their core business.

Ignoring the old days of "electricity too cheap to meter" and the fact that even as recently as 2003 the British Gov had to rescue British Energy (who operates the newer nuclear plants in the UK) with 3 billion pounds of taxpayer money, I have to wonder what will happen to the price of uranium ore when every country jumps on the nuclear bandwagon, let alone whether the real costs of waste disposal are going to be properly internalized or just dumped on the public purse at some point in the future, just as it has been from the plants of the past.

I am not completely against nuclear, I just think it should be a marginal supplier of power and that energy efficiency, followed by wind, tidal, solar, wave, hydro & geothermal should comprise the majority of electricity generation.

dbd33

Windfarms here look nothing like that. If I can get away from the computer in daylight tomorrow I'll get some pictures, but essentially they're a mass of wires, something like the pipes in an oil refinery, and many concrete bunker things (igloos the locals call them). The nearby roads have something like telegraph poles along them but with five or ten wires strung between them a couple of feet apart. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the one here (highway 17 between 10 and 89) looks very much like the prison one passes on the highway just outside Erie PA.

The wind farm is guarded, not to the degree that nuclear power stations are (it doesn't have that "we shoot on sight" signage one sees at the Bruce power station) but it is fenced and patrolled. It's all a bit Menwith Hill. It does rather amuse me that here, among the organic farming neo-hippies, the renewable energy industry has adopted the public relations approach of GCHQ.

Mr Lee

Oh come come DBD - your local wind-farm, doesn't come with that much wiring - they seem to have buried a lot of the cabling (presumably via the concrete bunkers); and I don't believe that it is encroaching on the Escarpment or the Bruce Trail just yet.

Not that I'm in favour totally - a friend who works in the energy business tells me that they're not anywhere near as efficient as some would have you believe and they are a blight on the landscape - especially with their associated concrete bunkers (not that there is much "landscape" around Shelburne). We looked at a house about 1km away from one of the turbines installed on the patch of country near dbd's humble abode and the constant "whoosh whoosh whoosh" of the blades was slightly eerie I thought. Plus they have those flashing red-lights on top (which all operate in sync).
NIMBY indeed...

dbd33

Given a moment I'll get pictures but you must know that no wires are buried in Ontario.


I can't say that I understand the noise argument, if I stand under them I don't hear anything and I wouldn't turn down a place because of other noise, a train track, for example, that's just something you get used to. A windmill in the backyard, without the wiring, wouldn't bother me.

Whether or not one considers Mulmur to have landscape, and I agree it's nothing compared to the Home Counties, it is what we have, it does attract tourists and we shouldn't spoil it if we don't have to.

Do you think there's a reason for the lights? Even small planes fly way higher than that so is it some sort of statement?

christmasoompa

He works for the BWEA actually (I noticed you posted a link from their website further down!).

Thanks for all your input and knowledge but not sure we'll convince anyone - seems as though the main problem is the way wind farms are set out in Canada which is very strange as in Europe and the US there are no wires, fences or concrete. Which is probably why I think they're rather lovely, perhaps I'd change my mind if I saw a Canadian one (although I'd still be pro-wind, I just think it's necessary and we're running out of other options).

Looks as though my innocent question has turned into a bit of a debate!

dbd33

I think that's probably true. I recall being awed by a wind farm in California a while back. I don't think Canadians much care for the appearance of the built environment and this indifference is reflected in the manner of constructing wind farms - they look a lot like the industrial suburbs one finds around airports.

Steve_P

I do wish that you would stop equating your experience of your local wind farm as being the norm across the country.

I've seen a few in southern Alberta that look nothing like you describe. No miles of wire running in all directions just the towers with their blades all other ancillary wiring appears to be buried.

Something like the attached picture.

dbd33

How does the power get from there to the city?

Steve_P

No idea.

I couldn't see where or how it's hooked into the grid.

But apparently it must as the City of Calgary is buying wind energy to run it's Light Rail Transit System.

Edit: Apparently the "City" now gets 75% of "its" power from wind power. I didn't know that until this morning.
http://sema-technology.blogspot.com/...o-in-wind.html

christmasoompa

Will ask hubby when he gets home tonight - his job title is Head of Grid & Technical Affairs so sure he'll have some idea! Will let you know what the answer is.

hot wasabi peas

Completely agree Steve. I have visited two wind farms in Alberta and I quite liked them. I might be biased though as I have investments in the 'renewables' sector.