kleinluka

I'm in Montreal too. Since July 31, 2004

I love the city (and the women ) but the french/english idiocy is getting on my nerves too. I can imagine that in the long term, this could become really annoying.

Remya

What annoys you most about the 'idiocy'? I'm curious.

I've been thinking about this so much recently that I think it would be in my best interest career wise (when I get one! But I don't particularly want to study at McGill either) not to stay here. I'd have to take a French test even if my clients were all anglophone (a la nursing - although it's not that that I want to do) and I don't see why I should have to. Besides, the language divide very much restricts the places I can work.

I love the cultural and linguistic aspects but still feel partly like a tourist, i.e. not fully integrated. So, time to find another province, perhaps...

kleinluka

Well some people get angry or treat you worse compared to french speaking people when they notice you only speak english or very little french (even if english isnt your main language).

Some french Quebecers speak both languages fluently but for some reason refuse to speak english when you and/or a few other english speaking people are around. I've had this happen to me on numerous occasions.

I don't even like going out with people anymore that are french Quebecers because they just end up speaking french together and I sit there boring the hell out of myself until they realize OH WAIT HE DOESNT SPEAK FRENCH. Then they will speak english for 3 minutes and switch back to french while I proceed to start knocking my head on the table over and over again.

I find it silly that everything is translated into french, hell, even the stop signs are in french. It feels like english is the forbidden language around here. Some people are fine with it. Some people are not and give you shit about it. It's stupid. There are way more important problems out there than this idiotic war about who speaks which language.

Personally, being a german, if I was going out with a bunch of friends and one of them happened to only speak english I would only speak english that night. And my friends would too. It's a matter of courtesy. I feel unwelcome here sometimes because of these things and I can imagine that I'll be getting sick of it in a few years.

iwanttotalktoyou

Welcome to Quebec.

yorkiebar99

lol
couldn't agree more. Wish I could say it will get better but it's a fact of living in Quebec. You either have to put up or get the hell out.

We have just got the hell outta there and can't even begin to tell you how wonderful it is to be free of it all. We left May 1st and feel as though a big weight has been lifted off our shoulders. Leave 'em to it.

kleinluka

Yeah well I've been putting up with it for 10 months now and I'm doing okay. It's just something that I really wish was different about Quebec because its such a beautiful place.

Oh well

Remya

What gets me also is that important information e.g. announcements on the Metro is only in French. I understand that francophones want to protect their language but people have a right to know what's going on. I think it's hilarious that they have only just put the English translation of the Immigration Quebec website online. When I was dealing with them (a year ago!) the info. was only in French and Spanish.

It's not necessarily just a question of 'learning French'. It doesn't come overnight! I do speak it but as a 3rd language so excuse me if my French doesn't come as quickly as my other 2 languages. However, I do see that this is all part of Quebec and we should put up with it or leave.

As for it being a beautiful place... I quite agree, and it's also tearing me apart! However, I haven't been outside of Quebec, and I'm sure there are plenty of other beautiful places in Canada. (Anyone care to back me up here?)

Btw Luka, what's your job here in rainy Mtl?

Quinn of Québec

Hello everyone,

Nice to see that this has become a lively thread - thank you so many replies!

Glad it's going well tallperson- did you have much homesickness in those 20 months or has it been mostly plain sailing?

Actually, I have already found one. I have been offered a few and now have the pleasant problem of trying to work out which one to take/where to live. My preference would be Québec City itself as it is just amazing but unfortunatley it looks as if there won't be a job opening there. The two offers I'm considering the most are a job in Laval (in which case I would actually live in the Laurentians - probabley Ste Anne des Lacs, Piedmont or Prevost) OR a job in Cowansville in the Eastern Townships. The lauentian offer may be better as my wife has a fair no. of relatives and freinds there so we wouldn't be quite so isolated in our new life but then again, houses are cheaper in Estrie and it does have the added attraction of being close to the US border etc.

Interesting point Ksct97 - it's surviving the winter which constitutes a minor reservation/worry I have about the move. I have spent the last 3 Christmas holidays in Québec City and have experienced the cold BUT only for a few weeks at a time. The idea of having months of sub zero temps on end makes my mind boggle but I guess I'll adapt.

this made me smile . . .I have to agree of course as my wife is one of them! Sorry you leaving Qc and that it didn't work out jus how you expected it to. Your posts at least are balanced showing both the good and the bad elements you have encountered.

Do you actually live in Montreal itself Remya & kleinluka? Wherabouts?

yorkiebar99,iwanttotalktoyou
and kleinluka . . . just out of interest; have any of you actually tried to learn french? I guess some anglophone immigrants will see the french language issue as an obstacle whilst others like myself will see it as an opportunity to learn a new language and be enriched by a new culture.

I personally find french quite difficult to acquire but will persist until I'm bilingual. In fact it's the french aspect of life in Québec that makes it more appealing to me than the other provinces. I had some potential jobs in Ontario which I didn't pursue as I WANT to be in this unique combination of french and north american culture.

I think it's a bit culturally imperialistic to expect inhabitants in a majority francophone province to speak your language (english). In fact us brits have a bad reputation for this all over the world whilst holidaying in spain, italy, germany etc. The interesting thing is that when immigrants to the UK they often are on the recieving end of a lot abuse a la 'Why don't they make an attempt to speak english?' So surely it's a bit hypocritical if we immigrate abroad to expect an exception to this sentiment?

The politics of course have to be seen in context. It must be quite threatening to be one of 7 million francophones with anglophone provinces all around and the largest anglophone country in the world bordering you in the south. Surely it's natural to preferentially speak in your mother tongue especially when it is in danger of being swamped by another language?

I don't want to turn this thread into a political discussion about linguistic struggles in Canada or about separist/federalist politics but just thought I'd chip in with those few thoughts.

What interests me far more is where are people actually living in the province and doing for a job? Also what is it you love about Québec?

Who knows - perhaps some of us can meet up for quelque bieres dans l'avenir?

QofQ

yonexsp

I have been here 8 years in August. Met a great French Canadian girl, whose Family is staunchly Federalist (Phew!). I have lived doentoen, NDG and for the past nearly 5 years, Ile Bizard. We have 2 kids now & pretty happy,

I love Montreal, best place ever lived. BUT! Really starting to get anoyned with the politics this past 2 years. It is only seeming to get worse as well. Faced with the prospect of another PQ government & referendum we are seriosly thinking about moving to Calgary.

The politics, the roads & now the lack of doctors, along with dodgy job prospects outside of the big International companies mean it will be inevitable.

I do love Quebec, but they just don;t know how well off they are, and seem intend on screwing it all up. I can't afford to lose the equity ion my home so I'll have to jump ship soon enough.

K./

Remya

>Do you actually live in Montreal itself Remya & kleinluka? Wherabouts?

Yup, Rosemont/Petite Patrie area, very handy for shopping and metro and everything but too bad about the slightly hick neighbours...

As for trying to learn French... just a quick point, but if you're an adult, you'll never get the french accent. So you can be bilingual in terms of grammar/vocab but you won't sound absolutely quebecois (trust me, I did linguistics). It's annoying even to see people wince at your attempts even if what you've said is perfect grammatically. But of course, there are others who think it's great you can join in in their language. All I'm saying is, it's the finer points such as mentality and accent that may be harder to acquire.

You're right that the language and culture makes Qc unique - in fact, that's why I'm counting out Ontario as well (but oddly, not BC - must be the weather?) - but although you can change yourself to try and fit in all you like, changing the mindsets of everyone who is already here is impossible (and really, why should you?). If you can fit in, well done, if not, it's understandable and there are other places.

I would be highly curious to see the results if the PQ got elected... the roads ARE bad, by the way! But luckily I don't drive... and it sounds like it's the same everywhere in Canada.

As for the comment about Quebec City (gorgeous place, btw, my favourite in the province) - the weather is the 2nd (and last) thing putting me off. I didn't mind the temps this past winter at all, except for the 2 days where my apartment block had no heating, but the sheer length of the cold days and long nights was too much. Around Feb I want to start seeing green grass and leaves on the trees, maybe snowdrops or whatever, and that just doesn't happen here. 3 to 5 months of winter is long and I know more than one person who has finally had enough of it. Personally, I'll stay this winter to see how it goes... Again, it's different for different people.

(The beer suggestion is a nice one, by the way, if anyone's interested).

yorkiebar99

I am a Quebecer. English Quebecer. I was born and raised in Quebec so I am bilingual.....More than i can say about most of the French Quebecers my age. We lived there for the past 2 years and to be honest i realised that its never going to change and I don't want to waste anymore of my energy on the people or the place. I think its really sad and pathetic to get served in a shop in Quebec by a young person who can't speak a word of english. I still have family there so can visit which is fine......and we thoroughly enjoy a night out in Montreal.
I am now a better person for not living in Quebec
Vivre le Quebec LIbre!!

kleinluka

First of all, I'm glad to see so many well thought out and insightful replies. Really cool...

As for the language issue, I have to strongly agree with yorkiebar99. It IS pathetic. I mean people where I live speak LESS ENGLISH than people back in GERMANY !!! How crazy is that? It IS Canada after all. French province or not.

To address some of the questions,
I live in East Montreal close to Metro Joliette (very french part of the city) because it is cheap to live there compared to Downtown or other areas.

My job is Shader Artist for Ubisoft (video game maker). Communication at work is mostly english, however there are a lot of french speaking people working at my company so you hear more or less french depending on where you go at the office. Some projects are almost completely filled by francophones, others are 50-50, etc... it's manageable.

I do speak french. I was one of the best french students in my class at school actually. Unfortunately I hadn't spoken any french for 3 years before moving here so I'm now really rusty at it, and the Quebec accent is a lot different from the France one. Hard to understand. I still know the most important stuff so I can usually at least PARTLY tell what's going on with announcements in the metro and all that.

Cheers, and yeah we should definitely meet up sometime and have some

Ruslan124

First of all, I am a visitor to canada and Quebec and although I do not like the politics, especially the language politics, it is not my province and I do not feel I have the right to complain about how Quebecoise run their province.

Quite frankly it annoys the hell out of me and hence the reason I am leaving. However, there are historical reasons for why Francophones are so possesive about their language and culture. It is my understanding that not so many years ago, Anglophones dominated the business community and unless you were an Anglo, your career was basically screwed. I suppose unless you were around at the time this happended, it would be difficult to understand the "fear" of the Francophone community. They are determined (unfortunately at all costs) to prevent this from happening again.

Just to balance my comments, I am constantly winding up my co workers about the independence movement and the language laws ( I do it in fun and get along very well with most everyone in the company)and if they were to read this reply they would certainly not believe it to be from me. Quebecois are in my opinion, very insecure and although I think they are doing themselves more harm than good, they are only doing what they feel they have to do to protect their futures. Unfortunately it ultimately drives away people like me.

Finally, I saw a documentary recently about the heyday of the seperatist movement and there was a statement made that really rang true, "you may feel that you are treated as a second class citizen because you do not speak french well enough. However, you could be Fluent in French (and Quebecoise) but it would make no difference to how you are treated becuase you would still not be French Canadian".

jorja

I'm in Rosemont too at the moment. Quite like it round here and the rent is reasonable. It's key to be at most a block from the nearest JeanCoutu/Depanneur/greasy spoon/bus stop!

Remya

I quite agree, jorja (was wondering if you'd make an appearance!). Can't say the 24 hour Smoked Meat place just around the corner is a bad thing either.