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-   -   Advice for a Canadian moving to England? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/advice-canadian-moving-england-662705/)

Alan2005 Apr 8th 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by rubberduckofdeath (Post 8481410)
How to make friends and influence people :rofl:

I really don't have anything against hs8 and I hope they realize that none of this is personal - even if the debate gets heated. However if anyone puts forward opinions that have no basis in reality and/or extrapolate their own experience as universal then they should expect to get pulled up on it. This applies to me too as various posters on here can attest;)

rae Apr 8th 2010 5:15 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by lmartin999 (Post 8479741)
I am guessing this is the kind of thing you are referring to?

"Residents say unruly patrons spill out after closing time and they have complained to the city about the noise, public urination and vomiting."

"when restaurants and bars close, "there's a lot of noise, issues with vandalism and people peeing and vomiting in the doorways.""

reading this thread with interest and trying desperately not to hijack. on the point above, only 2 nights ago had someone taking a piss in the middle of someones front garden, obviously pissed himself. there are drunken idiots in canada, but not in as large quantities i find and surprisingly not as aggressive. it seems stella does not make everyone fight.

rae Apr 8th 2010 5:19 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 8479706)
Your perception of crime in the UK is wrong - the statistics do not agree with you and neither do I.

please don't trust BCS or any Home office crime stats, very bent. for example, problem with thefts from motor vehicles a few years back. how did the home office deal with, they re-categorized the offence as vehicle interference, which is a summary offence and not recorded. overnight the figures looked fantastic. job done.

Alan2005 Apr 8th 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by rae (Post 8481929)
please don't trust BCS or any Home office crime stats, very bent. for example, problem with thefts from motor vehicles a few years back. how did the home office deal with, they re-categorized the offence as vehicle interference, which is a summary offence and not recorded. overnight the figures looked fantastic. job done.

Your example is about the police stats, not the BSC. Sure there are margins of error, but don't make the same mistake as hs8.

rae Apr 8th 2010 5:22 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by dollface (Post 8479866)
You're not painting a pretty picture:eek: I'll see how I feel when I go back. Hopefully I won't be visiting the ER:)

you'll be fine, i went back for a week last year and it made me feel like moving back, though part of that i think was just the nostalgia and contact with friends. day to day living here is better, unless every single day you visit churches, museums, countryside, country pubs, seaside, eat fish and chips, eat curry, go clothes shopping, watch 6hrs of TV, listen to 4hrs of radio 2......
if you do thats a bloody good day well done.

rae Apr 8th 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 8481939)
Your example is about the police stats, not the BSC. Sure there are margins of error, but don't make the same mistake as hs8.

yes it is and yes there are. BSC is good but always put down by the government for obvious reasons. the problem with BSC though is it contacts/ interviews people who declare themselves as victims of crime. If you don't report it, they don't record it. The police figures reflect persons spoken to who wish no further action and refuse to support a prosecution, this is the reason usually given for differences in figures.

rae Apr 8th 2010 5:33 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 
with regard to my last i don't think i explained it very well. when the questionnaires are received, if you have not reported it to the cops because of whatever reason, survey goes in the bin too. if however the cops have recorded an event at your address say, no matter what its recorded, whether you chose to fill in the survey directed to you randomly or not. and of course if you never ring the cops and don't fill in the survey know one will ever know. this happens a lot. going to someones home for the first time, then being told they had their car broken into last year in general chat, but never reported it to anyone.
be honest, how many of these survey things does anyone get and actually fill in?

Alan2005 Apr 8th 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by rae (Post 8481954)
yes it is and yes there are. BSC is good but always put down by the government for obvious reasons. the problem with BSC though is it contacts/ interviews people who declare themselves as victims of crime. If you don't report it, they don't record it. The police figures reflect persons spoken to who wish no further action and refuse to support a prosecution, this is the reason usually given for differences in figures.

It doesn't just get in touch with people who declare themselves victims of crime otherwise (as I said to hs8) "Have you been a victim of crime" would be 100%. Though I bet they do get in touch with those who've reported crimes as well as that will give them different data.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/bcs-faq.pdf


It is important that the survey represents everyone in the country so we need to talk to men and women of all ages and all backgrounds. In this way the results from the BCS reflect the experiences and attitudes of the whole population. We are interested in everyone’s attitudes and concerns about crime, whether or not they have been a victim of crime.
Sure there is a margin of error, but I bet it's within +/- 3% like most surveys.

Edit: The fact is, I don't have to defend the survey. I know that I trust that more than the police stats and I trust those a lot more than the experience of one person.

Elvira Apr 8th 2010 5:39 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by rae (Post 8481941)
you'll be fine, i went back for a week last year and it made me feel like moving back, though part of that i think was just the nostalgia and contact with friends. day to day living here is better, unless every single day you visit churches, museums, countryside, country pubs, seaside, eat fish and chips, eat curry, go clothes shopping, watch 6hrs of TV, listen to 4hrs of radio 2......
if you do thats a bloody good day well done.

Well I guess I would normally manage 2 or 3 out of those in an average day, so that's good enough for me. Make it Radio 3 and 4 though :lol:

As for all the chavs and crime and what-nots............ I must lead a sheltered life but I have not encountered much of either - be it prior to our misguided move, or during my very frequent visits back.

Whereas here in California, where I currently hang my hat, the local nightly news are full of shootings.

YMMV, but no one should be put off moving (back) to the UK by fear of crime. In most countries I suspect location/location/location is everything.

But you cannot beat the culture and diversity of Europe.

rae Apr 8th 2010 6:03 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 8481986)
It doesn't just get in touch with people who declare themselves victims of crime otherwise (as I said to hs8) "Have you been a victim of crime" would be 100%. Though I bet they do get in touch with those who've reported crimes as well as that will give them different data.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/bcs-faq.pdf



Sure there is a margin of error, but I bet it's within +/- 3% like most surveys.

Edit: The fact is, I don't have to defend the survey. I know that I trust that more than the police stats and I trust those a lot more than the experience of one person.

i think i covered your first point in my second reply. as for the second bit i would not trust any stats ever from whomever, they are simply a tool used to bend public opinion in the direction whatever organization wants it.
experience of one person no, personal experience generally, yes.

Alan2005 Apr 8th 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by rae (Post 8482059)
i think i covered your first point in my second reply. as for the second bit i would not trust any stats ever from whomever, they are simply a tool used to bend public opinion in the direction whatever organization wants it.
experience of one person no, personal experience generally, yes.

Well, then in my personal experience the UK is crime free.

Alan2005 Apr 8th 2010 6:39 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by rae (Post 8482059)
i think i covered your first point in my second reply. as for the second bit i would not trust any stats ever from whomever, they are simply a tool used to bend public opinion in the direction whatever organization wants it.
experience of one person no, personal experience generally, yes.

(The fact is you haven't covered my first point - they explicitly state that they don't just speak to people that are victims of crime, and you say otherwise)

I will actually pick up on your second point. Stats can be used as a tool to bend public opinion - but they are not, as many people say, lies. They measure what they measure with a fairly good accuracy. I hadn't up until now actually read about how the BSC go about collecting their data - however it seems reasonable to me, all the data is available for scrutiny and so it's actually stupid (and cynical for the sake of it) to reject everything they say because it doesn't fit in with your own view. Do you also ignore everything that stats canada says? I don't - I tend to think they are quite reliable.

Reminds me of the MMR scandal where the parents all said the vaccine was bad because something was wrong with their kids despite all the evidence to the contrary. Personal experience is great, but you can't let it obscure your view of the wider picture.

andrewporter Apr 8th 2010 7:55 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 
hello, if you want to meet up sometime, when we come to halifax or if you are ever in mahone bay, as we are thinking of moving to england also, we live in nova scotia now...we can discuss things ..

I'm a Canadian possibly moving to England looking for some advice from those who have done the same except the other way round. My partner moved to Canada nearly 5 years ago with his family, we met and had a son together who is nearly 2 now. His family has gone back and he would like to follow.

I'm not "sold" on the move yet. I love it here in NS, I've never been to England and we can't afford for me to even have a visit before moving there permanently. The visa fees and container would be expensive, not to mention the flights for us and the higher housing costs there. I'm prone to seasonal depression and am terrified at the prospect of not seeing a full sunny day from Nov-May. I'll miss the wide open, unpopulated spaces. I'll miss my family. I would love to have an extended visit in the UK, but I'm afraid I won't like living there. I've dreamed of travelling to the UK all my life but when faced with a permanent move I'm balking.

Do you have any advice for me? When you moved to Canada did you have reservations? Should I just take the plunge? It seems like some of you really love it here in Canada. I sure wish my fiance felt the same way. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

el_richo Apr 8th 2010 8:19 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by oconnorkerry (Post 8473741)
am terrified at the prospect of not seeing a full sunny day from Nov-May. I'll miss the wide open, unpopulated spaces.

If you've not visited the UK before, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much wide open, sparsely populated space the country has.


Originally Posted by oconnorkerry (Post 8473741)
am terrified at the prospect of not seeing a full sunny day from Nov-May

Again, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the weather, especially in the southern areas of the country. It isn't all doom and gloom as many weather obsessed brits will make out.

iaink Apr 8th 2010 8:31 pm

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 8482342)
If you've not visited the UK before, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much wide open, sparsely populated space the country has.

Depends where you go doesnt it;)


Again, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the weather, especially in the southern areas of the country. It isn't all doom and gloom as many weather obsessed brits will make out.
You mean the crowded cramped bit then?


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