Jingsamichty

Correct. The Canadian way is to ignore the root cause of hungry families, but drop a bottle of maple syrup into the food bank box, and walk away, as if the problem has gone away.

iaink

Oh dear. I dont think I've seen so much projection in one place since the last time I went to the cinema!

Jingsamichty

You've been itching to use that line, haven't you?!

JonboyE

To be fair ...

I did a lot of tax returns this year. My clients may not be a representative sample, but the amount of money they donate to various charities is staggering. As they go about it quietly only they, their accountant, the CRA and (possibly) God, knows about it.

iaink

It came to me in a dream....after I dozed off wading through all the self serving opinion offered up as fact in this thread.

Alan2005

You do realize this is a web forum right?

iaink

Thanks for that timely reminder, I thought I has accidentally stumbled into Rush Limbaughs blog or something...

Alan2005

If that's my views your are talking about - you are way off the mark.

Jingsamichty

I'm sure you're right. All the individual Canadians I know are extremely charitable, and I've always said that as a country, Canada is the most charitable place I've ever seen. But, is it counter-productive? Is charity acting as a sort of 'enabler' which acts as a plaster where actually surgery is required?

With so much charity, the fact that there are still more hungry families and homeless people than can be helped surely points to a major underlying flaw in society? And my point is that Canadians - in general - would seemingly rather take the (easy) charitable solutions over the (difficult) political ones.

Alan2005

Exactly. For instance, nobody is going to vote for any policy that leads to cheaper housing, even though socially and economically that is in the best interests of society as a whole. Hypocrites.

iaink

Politicians and policy reflect the society that elects them...

I think to the average Brit , used to the NHS and welfare state that came after WWii, Canada looks a relatively harsh and uncaring society.(lets not forget we are a small minority here!)

To an american, it looks like some pinko liberal haven for the workshy.

It is what it is, it's Canada. Over time it will change to reflect the people that come here I guess


The general argument is that people prefer to decide for themselves who they want to help and to what degree, rather than have the goverment reach into their pocket and decide for them.

Alan2005

- Helping people in dire straights is a good thing.
- Helping people maintain a lifestyle that they can no longer afford is not.

JonboyE

There is a very real issue here. I don't think that anyone wants to live in a society where someone who is down on their luck, through no fault of their own, is not given a helping hand. Food and shelter at some dignified and civilized level is surely a right of citizenship.

On the other hand, we all want to live in a society where everyone makes the contribution appropriate to their abilities. If the Daily Mail is to be believed, Britain is riven with families who have not worked for generations and teenage girls getting pregnant to get a council house and benefits for life.

The Daily Mail apart, when I grew up in the North East in the 60s I knew families where no one worked and no one had any intention of working, excepting the odd bit of B&E. I would be very surprised if any of their offspring have broken an honest sweat since.

Somewhere social assistance stops being a leg up to the needy and becomes a disincentive to work and contribute. That level is set lower in Canada than the UK. As iaink has said, this level is set by society through its elected leaders. It is not going to change much as long as we keep sending conservatives back to parliament. However, it does reflect an attitude that seems very common around here, "that it is not what you do that matters, just as long as you do something."

Easterndawn

The payments last only at the most 35 weeks and then they stop until you have worked enough hours to recollect. The benefits will not be paid if you quit a position without due cause, and you can be asked to verify that you did not cause the loss of the job.

iaink

The vast majority of elected post war governments in canada have been liberal...

If you want to be cynical about it, look at where the vast majority of current immigrants are coming from and the standard of living and welfare provision there (China, India, Pakistan, Philippines etc). If anything Canada will continue to head farther in the direction of US minimal intervention, with the US perhaps becoming a little more liberal to meet us in the middle.


You could even argue that in order for there to be a level economic playing field across NAFTA some sort of convergence is inevitable?