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Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Old Sep 8th 2020, 10:12 am
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Default Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Hi

I'm new here so please forgive me if this is a dumb question! I am considering moving to live in the Netherlands with my wife and my UK based company have offered to put me on secondment for 12 months. So I would be being paid into UK account. I have questions about tax! My company seem to think I'd be paid into UK account and taxed and paying NI contributions in the UK. So my question is would I also be liable to pay taxes in the Netherlands aswell and what level it would likely be at? I'm trying to figure out if the move would be affordable and worth it! Is there some sort of double taxation agreement between the 2 countries so that I wouldn't pay anything twice?

Any info or anyone who has done something similar would be very helpful! Thanks very much in advance
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Old Sep 8th 2020, 5:51 pm
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Firstly, I am not a lawyer - seek professional advice.

If you spend more than 180 (181?) days in a different European country, you would become tax resident in that country. You might think that HMRC is a lion among taxmen - the Belastingdienst make them look like a small kitten, such are their powers.

I don't know (and it's your prerogative to keep private stuff private) who you work for or how much you earn. Nor do I know if your contract would be moved to a Dutch limited company rather than the UK one. But you might want to look into the 30% ruling, where the taxman treats highly-paid (depends on your age) incomers as special cases, treating 30% of your salary as a tax-free disbursement for the cost of relocation/readjustment to a new country - I believe this is now for 5 years, and might cushion you against the differences in cost of living/taxes.
https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/t...g/requirements
https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/d...shortened-2019

It's worth noting that you can claim more back in taxes here than in the UK. In the year you stay, and the year you leave, you fill in an M tax form. When we did this, we received several thousand euros back from them (other years, not so lucky ) but if you only plan to stay 12 months, it might be that you would have a fair chunk paid back to you - especially as if your missus isn't working that year, they would repay you her taxfree annual allowance.

Good luck, and remember that everything as we know it changes on 31 December. Make sure you turn up at your town hall before this date - rental contract in hand (a legal requirement for residency) - within 5 days of signing a lease, if you plan to do this - in order to acquire a residence permit.
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Old Sep 8th 2020, 7:08 pm
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

If you are living and working in the Netherlands, but working for a UK employer you really shouldn't be on the UK payroll at all, and would need to complete a UK tax return each year to reclaim income tax deducted for which you were not liable. AFAIK the NI is not reclaimable, but that would go towards your UK state pension, and then you will need to pay Netherlands income and social charges as from the Netherlands taxing authorities you will be tax resident at least after 180(ish) days, but perhaps sooner as you are on a fixed 12 month contract.

Contrary to popular rumour, you cannot,
just voluntarily pay tax in one country and then just deduct the tax paid erroneously from the tax due in another country.

That said, some companies that frequently post people on 12-24 month assignments sometimes reach "an arrangement" with the local tax authorities and pay taxes "on your behalf" and then leave you on the payroll in the UK.

Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 8th 2020 at 7:11 pm.
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Old Sep 10th 2020, 8:20 am
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Thanks everyone for their responses. I did speak to someone at the Dutch tax office but they were not very helpful! From what I gathered from what they were saying it does seem as though because I will only be spending 4 or 5 days a month working in the UK that I would have to pay income tax in the Netherlands and only pay tax in the UK for the 4 or 5 days a month that I work there. I'm just confused as to how it will all work if I'm being paid in the UK into a UK account as normal. I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I get charged income tax in the UK automatically as what happens now, then also charged tax in NL and have to go through the process of claiming it back from either UK/NL as that would leave me very short of money until I could claim it back.

I don't think I would qualify for the 30% rule because my company has no presence in the Netherlands and I am technically moving there by choice. I do earn a fairly decent salary (around £55k a year). I am considering moving there because my wife has been offered a job there with a Dutch company.

As someone suggested maybe I need to seek advice from a professional accountant!

Thanks
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Old Sep 10th 2020, 1:08 pm
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Originally Posted by Dw4488 View Post
.... As someone suggested maybe I need to seek advice from a professional accountant! .....
I was under the impression, based on your first post, that you were being sent to the Netherlands by your employer, for you to perform work at a location in the Netherlands, presumably that of your employer, a supplier, or a client, but it now sounds as if you're just planning on working remotely, and will have no face-to-face contact with any clients, suppliers, or colleagues in the Netherlands?

I would place more than a modest bet that a "professional accountant" will tell you precisely what I posted in my first paragraph of my previous post, but if indeed you are just "working remotely" for your British employer then, under those circumstances (of you and your employer) I would guess that most people under the same circumstances would just fly under the radar. However per BE forum rules, I must point out that that approach would likley be contrary to Netherlands law.

Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 10th 2020 at 1:11 pm.
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 2:27 pm
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Haha I'll pretend you didn't say that then

I did just get some advice from an accountant and he said that I'd be taxable in the UK for income and NI until April 2022 (you are only not liable for tax in the UK if you live abroad for one full UK tax year apparently). At the end of Dutch tax year I would claim foreign income tax relief due to the double taxation agreement in place between the 2 countries. I may still have to pay social taxes there although he did think I may be exempt from that as long as I have proof that I pay NI in the UK
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Originally Posted by Dw4488 View Post
..... I did just get some advice from an accountant and he said that I'd be taxable in the UK for income and NI until April 2022 (you are only not liable for tax in the UK if you live abroad for one full UK tax year apparently). .....
That's kinda sorta true - but if you leave mid-year you get 100% deduction for earnings while you were outside the UK.

I left in November 2001 and started work in the US the same month but paid no more tax in the UK after I left because of the 100% deduction.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 12:50 pm
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Default Re: Living in Netherlands but working for UK company on secondment

Like Pulaski, I read from your opening post that this was a secondment or assignment arranged by your employer, ''my UK based company have offered to put me on secondment for 12 months''. I think you need to understand that you don't decide, and your accountant doesn't decide, who you owe tax to. The tax authorities of both countries decide that. The Belastingdienst has already told you they would expect you to be paying tax here, based on the information you gave them.

As your wife is the one who has the new job in NL and you are for all intents and purposes a trailing spouse, you should make 100% sure your tax affairs are in order. Do not underestimate the ability of the Dutch tax authorities to obtain tax it believe you owe them. Post Brexit, both might try to claim it because there are no arrangements in place if the UK goes ahead with breaking international law, and the EU issues sanctions - but none of us have a crystal ball. It makes sense therefore to discuss your options with someone who works day-in-day-out with the Dutch tax authorities (hint: that won't be your average british accountant). If your wife qualifies for the 30% ruling, it is advisable to do so as this also means simplification in other areas, such as changing your driving licence without retaking a test (as third country nationals have to)

There are hundreds of Dutch tax accountants services if you google it - many produce guides which might answer questions you have left. Perhaps you'd get a good conversation out of one (if they think you would become their client)? Perhaps another option would be to contact a Dutch Umbrella company who would receive your entire salary from your UK company, and would then handle the payment of taxes on your behalf?

https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/t...tch-tax-system
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