Dorothy

Do you think women only work for money? Like I said earlier, we could get by just fine on one salary here but I choose to work. I like having my own mind and using it. I know many couples who are wealthy where both parents work. It's because they CHOOSE to, not because they have to.

What I wonder about is why you assume it's bad parenting for both a mother and father to want something more than nappies and bottles 24/7.

Sally

with collars on

Fly Away

That's absolutely fine - I understand, but why chose to have children if you can't work out an arrangement whereby you actually spend some time with your baby during the day for the first year of it's life. I'm not talking about staying at home 24/7. I'm talking about parents sacrificing a few hours a day for a few months of their life to spend with their child. Believe me, I have seen parents drop off a 6 week old baby at nursery 5 days a week, 10 hours a day. Tell me how this child is getting a better deal than another child being cared for in a loving home?

I agree, good parents are parents with alert minds and satisfying lives - but there must be a point at which the child's interests have to come first?

Edit; When I pointed out that a lot of parents putting their children in childcare for long hours were wealthy, I was trying to say - probably clumsily - that the need for childcare was not due to the financial need to work. In these situations, I completely understand why parents have to use childcare for babies.

northernbird

I think I will have to agree to disagree with you. There is nothing to suggest that children suffer as long as they have a good childcare provider. In fact it has widely been reported that a childs development is enhanced by a good daycare provider.

Fly Away

Again, I agree. when my child was 2. I put her in a lovely nursery for 3 hours one day a week, soley to give her the chance to experience a new environment and make new friends.

I think, what I am trying to say is that some parents misuse these establishments. Their children suffer not at the hands of the nursery but by missing out on what their parents can offer them.

You have to remember that the way we we live our lives as fragmented families is the result of the Industrial Revolution. It suited those in positions of power to separate families into individual units of production, rather than using them as larger units. Before then, parents and children were very much part of each others daily lives. I'm not saying this was a better time, just that we live our lives according to convention and do what society expects of us in any given period. I try to examine why things are done the way they are and sometimes question them. As a professional woman I was repeatedly told that 'it would be a waste' to take time out to have a baby. A waste of what? Society's time and money spent creating a unit of production, that's what.

Sorry to waffle on, but a glass or two of wine have passed my lips - so please excuse poor typing too! I am just trying to point out that soicety forces us to adopt attitudes and lifestyles and sometimes I'm happy to buck against the trend.

Dorothy

Why choose not to have children if I also want a professional life? Maybe you can open your mind a little bit to look at things from someone else's perspective. My children are bright, intelligent, worldly individuals who went to daycare at an early age. Their mother is a bright, intelligent, worldly individual who went to work when her children were young. Working for 8 hours per day does not make me or any other mother or father unfit as a parent. It does not make a child any less loved or cared for. Maybe we should ask if children who stay at home with their parents are less cared for? Could it be that the parents don't want their children to experience life away from home?
Like NB said. We need to agree to disagree on this. Apparently you can't see any other point of view but your own and I'm tired of explaining things to a closed mind.

Fly Away

Hi Dorothy - nothing like healthy debate - I'm not getting at you or anybody else personally. I will certainly agree to disagree and I won't post on the thread again if you want.

I'm certainly not trying to say YOU are an unfit parent. I'm sure your children are bright and happy and so are mine. We both made the choices which were right for us at the time. Just pointing out that in this world, things aren't perfect and some children suffer because of the way society is structured. Other children thrive because of the way society is structured. I think women should have as many opportunites as men but I would like the way the workplace is organised to change so that parents have more choices.

I hope that I don't have a closed mind because I do try to work out why society makes us do, what we do. Hope you can keep your mind open too.

It's been fun having the debate.

snowbunny

You and me both.... when I had my eldest 15 years ago (in the US) I couldn't find a part-time job in my field, and thought, surely, surely in the future people will be more enlightened?

Guess what, it is now HARDER to get a part-time job in my field.