A worthy cause?
May 31st 2011, 4:41 pm
#31
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,230
Re: A worthy cause?
I didn’t mean to contradict myself, (I was typing as I was doing something else and multitasking isn’t my strongpoint).
Nor did I mean to infer that the type dust causes lung cancer, although I suspect it isn’t good for you.
What I was alluding to in my rather rambling email is that the direct correlation between smoking and lung cancer isn’t as straightforward as it seems.
Smoking is one of the things that will cause lung cancer, but it isn’t the only one. Many people work in dusty environments that would also cause such problems. That how you end up hearing about people who have never smoked but get lung cancer. The fact that they worked with fine particle carcinogenic material is overlooked.
Similarity, some people are not prone to cancer, usually genetically. Cancer rates are not evenly spread across the world, and are higher in some genetic streams. The chances are my wife will not die of Cancer because she is Japanese.
You might be able to reverse the situation and say some people are genetically disposed to cancer. I’m not sure.
I believe lifestyle also has an impact, although I am not sure why or how. Some of the medical people on here may be able to explain it.
The important thing, and it’s the bit that the researches railed against, is that you have to take a holistic look at our lifestyles, rather than simply point to one thing and say – do that and you will get cancer.
We now live a lifestyle that is far different to that intended for our body. Indeed we expect the body to last far longer than it was designed for, and we subject it to a range of influences that it was never intended to undergo.
Nor did I mean to infer that the type dust causes lung cancer, although I suspect it isn’t good for you.
What I was alluding to in my rather rambling email is that the direct correlation between smoking and lung cancer isn’t as straightforward as it seems.
Smoking is one of the things that will cause lung cancer, but it isn’t the only one. Many people work in dusty environments that would also cause such problems. That how you end up hearing about people who have never smoked but get lung cancer. The fact that they worked with fine particle carcinogenic material is overlooked.
Similarity, some people are not prone to cancer, usually genetically. Cancer rates are not evenly spread across the world, and are higher in some genetic streams. The chances are my wife will not die of Cancer because she is Japanese.
You might be able to reverse the situation and say some people are genetically disposed to cancer. I’m not sure.
I believe lifestyle also has an impact, although I am not sure why or how. Some of the medical people on here may be able to explain it.
The important thing, and it’s the bit that the researches railed against, is that you have to take a holistic look at our lifestyles, rather than simply point to one thing and say – do that and you will get cancer.
We now live a lifestyle that is far different to that intended for our body. Indeed we expect the body to last far longer than it was designed for, and we subject it to a range of influences that it was never intended to undergo.
While I agree with that, it kind of goes against one of biggest facts that cancer is down life expectancy is longer than it was. So it can't be that bad. Then again against that you have improvements in healthcare, hygeine, etc. So yes, like you say there are always several factors in everything and lowest common demoninator simplifications are bullshit.
But without wild generalisations - what fun would message boards like this one be?
May 31st 2011, 4:54 pm
#32
Rhino with a big horn!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,117
Re: A worthy cause?
I thought one of the factors for the low decrease in cancers has been the improvement in heart attack survival and the reduction in deaths due to heart disease. That is, people are now surviving long enough to develop cancer instead.
May 31st 2011, 5:42 pm
#33
Not allowed opinions.
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: A worthy cause?
You could extend the logic. Sooner or later we will all be able to live to 100+.
Suppose someone then someone discovers that having a hand shandy increases the risk of testicle cancer in over 80s. Do we then start a major campaign to stop blokes tugging, on the grounds that it is killing people off? Or do we say – you never expected to live beyond 80 anyway.
May 31st 2011, 5:54 pm
#34
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: A worthy cause?
Exactly my point. You can’t just take the data for a lot of this and use it without looking at the other factors. As Rambi says, we now live long enough to develop cancer.
You could extend the logic. Sooner or later we will all be able to live to 100+.
Suppose someone then someone discovers that having a hand shandy increases the risk of testicle cancer in over 80s. Do we then start a major campaign to stop blokes tugging, on the grounds that it is killing people off? Or do we say – you never expected to live beyond 80 anyway.
You could extend the logic. Sooner or later we will all be able to live to 100+.
Suppose someone then someone discovers that having a hand shandy increases the risk of testicle cancer in over 80s. Do we then start a major campaign to stop blokes tugging, on the grounds that it is killing people off? Or do we say – you never expected to live beyond 80 anyway.
But yes, you're utterly right - live however you want but have an escape route ready for when the surgeon wants your bollocks and the grim reaper's knocking at the fly screen......
May 31st 2011, 6:00 pm
#35
Rhino with a big horn!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,117
Re: A worthy cause?
Exactly my point. You can’t just take the data for a lot of this and use it without looking at the other factors. As Rambi says, we now live long enough to develop cancer.
You could extend the logic. Sooner or later we will all be able to live to 100+.
Suppose someone then someone discovers that having a hand shandy increases the risk of testicle cancer in over 80s. Do we then start a major campaign to stop blokes tugging, on the grounds that it is killing people off? Or do we say – you never expected to live beyond 80 anyway.
You could extend the logic. Sooner or later we will all be able to live to 100+.
Suppose someone then someone discovers that having a hand shandy increases the risk of testicle cancer in over 80s. Do we then start a major campaign to stop blokes tugging, on the grounds that it is killing people off? Or do we say – you never expected to live beyond 80 anyway.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm
May 31st 2011, 6:51 pm
#36
Not allowed opinions.
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: A worthy cause?
The next Sunday the entire ship turned up for church parade.
When people are dying and you think you might be next, you start looking at options.
You might think - “I don’t want to live beyond 80, so I will stick to my 80 a day habit”. But on the night before your birthday, as the grim reaper is sitting in the waiting room, you might regret those woodbines.
May 31st 2011, 7:02 pm
#37
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: A worthy cause?
That’s a good point. I had a mate on the Canberra on the way to the Falklands. He said the first Sunday they had a church parade and only the usual suspects turned up. A few days later the British sank the Belgrano and the Argies sank the Sheffield.
The next Sunday the entire ship turned up for church parade.
When people are dying and you think you might be next, you start looking at options.
You might think - “I don’t want to live beyond 80, so I will stick to my 80 a day habit”. But on the night before your birthday, as the grim reaper is sitting in the waiting room, you might regret those woodbines.
The next Sunday the entire ship turned up for church parade.
When people are dying and you think you might be next, you start looking at options.
You might think - “I don’t want to live beyond 80, so I will stick to my 80 a day habit”. But on the night before your birthday, as the grim reaper is sitting in the waiting room, you might regret those woodbines.
May 31st 2011, 7:05 pm
#38
Not allowed opinions.
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: A worthy cause?
I don’t want to end up an incontinent old fool who annoys people on the internet all day.
Ooooher.
May 31st 2011, 7:10 pm
#39
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: A worthy cause?
How did you get 'bullshit' passed the Mods?
May 31st 2011, 7:42 pm
#40
Shiny Arse Know All
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide, somewhere
Posts: 14,180
Re: A worthy cause?
I'm a quality of life as opposed to a quantity of life bloke. Being stuck in a home unable to recognise family/friends, carry out basic bodily functions without help etc is not my definition of living 
(unless it's in the mess at 5 am after a good nght out 
)
The simple solution to the smoking in pubs arguement was to allow them to choose. If the demand was there for non-smoking pubs then they would thrive
The anti's always stated as fact that; if only smoking were banned then they would surge into the pub, so how come pubs are still closing down then, with no sign of masses of self satisfied anti-smokers entering the doors
mmm starting to rant and I don't and never have smoked
, time for me to go grasshopper 
(unless it's in the mess at 5 am after a good nght out )The simple solution to the smoking in pubs arguement was to allow them to choose. If the demand was there for non-smoking pubs then they would thrive
The anti's always stated as fact that; if only smoking were banned then they would surge into the pub, so how come pubs are still closing down then, with no sign of masses of self satisfied anti-smokers entering the doors
mmm starting to rant and I don't and never have smoked
, time for me to go grasshopper
May 31st 2011, 7:44 pm
#41
Rhino with a big horn!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,117
Re: A worthy cause?
I'm a quality of life as opposed to a quantity of life bloke. Being stuck in a home unable to recognise family/friends, carry out basic bodily functions without help etc is not my definition of living (unless it's in the mess at 5 am after a good nght out )
The simple solution to the smoking in pubs arguement was to allow them to choose. If the demand was there for non-smoking pubs then they would thrive
The anti's always stated as fact that; if only smoking were banned then they would surge into the pub, so how come pubs are still closing down then, with no sign of masses of self satisfied anti-smokers entering the doors
mmm starting to rant and I don't and never have smoked, time for me to go grasshopper
(unless it's in the mess at 5 am after a good nght out )The simple solution to the smoking in pubs arguement was to allow them to choose. If the demand was there for non-smoking pubs then they would thrive
The anti's always stated as fact that; if only smoking were banned then they would surge into the pub, so how come pubs are still closing down then, with no sign of masses of self satisfied anti-smokers entering the doors
mmm starting to rant and I don't and never have smoked
, time for me to go grasshopper
May 31st 2011, 7:47 pm
#42
Shiny Arse Know All
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide, somewhere
Posts: 14,180
Re: A worthy cause?
Oversupply maybe but my point stands about the anti's still not pitching up to the pub. The missus now complains about the smell of stale beer, food and BO instead of fags
(bloody ex smokers 
)
Jun 1st 2011, 1:54 am
#44
Joined: May 2006
Location: in the Sydney asylum
Posts: 20,690
Re: A worthy cause?
smoking and cancer does have many other factors involved one factor is that some people are genetically susceptible to the chemicals in cigarettes some are not
COPD is more likely than cancer, however it is unusual in those below 40 years of age and as such does not impact heavily on the work force and garners a lot less research and funding from western governments than cancer or heart disease.
COPD is more likely than cancer, however it is unusual in those below 40 years of age and as such does not impact heavily on the work force and garners a lot less research and funding from western governments than cancer or heart disease.
Jun 1st 2011, 2:03 am
#45
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,860
