Wol

>>There's a real resistance by a huge core of people to anything Automated and not in their own control in the West.<<

Which brings us on to Windows Ten!

The huge problems faced by millions with the so-called "upgrade" shows just how badly served we can be by the IT industry. My nearly new laptop is virtually unusable due to the constant downloading the #1803 "up"grade and failing - the downloads take from 6 - 10 hrs each, immobilising the internet, using most of my monthly allowance halfway through and effectively freezing the thing.

I had to go back to W7 on my desktop - and it's a breath of fresh air.

Automation has its advantages, but..............

Wol

>>Thinking about this it really comes down to the learning process. In Asia they like to rote learn. Follow a process. That process is usually inefficient even though they are using technology to do the tasks. What we do here is take that technology and figure out how we can make that process more efficient.<<

Agree. Years ago I was stuck in Bangkok due to fog. The inbound aircraft diverted to a military field on the South coast: not a problem - the outbound crew just had to have transport arranged there, so all staff were hard at work on phones, faxes etc. After an hour or two it became apparent that NOTHING had been done - it was all to give the impression that everything was under control.

We in the West are so often guilty of promoting this idea that Asia is somehow much better than we. Yes, they value education much more, but as you say so much is rote learning.

Remember a few years ago when South Korean teachers went on strike (IIRC) because they were told not to help pupils cheat in exams?

Beoz

I have a one month old new laptop (it absolutely flies) At first the boot and shutdown sequence was slower but as all the patches finally sorted themselves out it's now very quick.

Sounds to me you have a few technical issues as well as a fear of change. Might also need to accept that unlimited data plans are the only way forward.

How else do you expect software companies to keep you up to date? Post floppy disks?

Beoz

I see the Singaporeans very comfortable using technology to a certain level. Anything beyond their comfort zone where they have to experiment or try a few different things it becomes a little bit of an effort. Is the process learning or fear of failure? I don't know. Australians and other western cultures love pushing tech boundaries.

They will change, they will have to.

GarryP

The problems with Win10 weren't engineering, and certainly not automation. There was a perfectly good OS under there (albeit one getting long in the tooth). The problem came when they let the designers, manager, and marketeers escape and get near it. First the managers wanted to expand into phones, tablets, etc. even though they were late to the show. So, they thought, lets embrace and extend from Win7, with the same interface/OS across all of them. Then the designers got in there with "flat is fashionable" and the desire to make the interface scale from a 5" phone to a 65" TV. So they made a horrible mess that did nothing well, was widely reviled and didn't sell. Rather than go back to what worked (Win 7) they doubled down on failure "I know we will give it away to get them to accept it, then we can sell the other devices as compatible". But that caused problems because there will billions of dollars that wouldn't come in. "I know, we will load it full of spyware, and remove user control so they have to see what we want them to see" said the marketeers and managers.

And thus was the abortion we see today born - with a crappy UI that nobody likes and works for no one, targeting devices they no longer make, and with the marketeers trying to force everything through their (empty) app store so they can rake off money.

A convincing display of taking a machine gun to your foot. They are being sustained by the same kind of brain dead CTO that used to say "nobody ever got sacked for buying IBM" and falls for their subpar cloud office offering.

Beoz

Meanwhile their share price has quadrupled in 5 years and Garry needs to look for reasons why he didn't jump on my lead 4 years ago.

Bad luck Garry. Maybe next time.

Wol

You are one of the many people who haven't had any problems with the updates then.
Don't take my word for it - go to the W10 update page and click on the feedback icon, or just Google - there are millions who have had major problems and not all the same ones.
FWIW it's a relatively new HP Spectre, W10 Home and no change in the update settings - not that that is possible in any meaningful sense. It has been downloading #1803 for several weeks now then failing to install - thousands have the same issue. Each download takes hour after hour and it blocks the internet for my other computer (which I have re-installed W7 on, like many others.)

Wol

Agree with all! I installed ClassicShell as soon as my first comfuser updated itself to 10, which at least makes the desktop look and act like W7. Then, when I went back to W7 I installed Steve Gibson's Never10 - which prevents the forced "Up"grade.

GarryP

5 Years ago the MS share price was $31.62, today it is $106.27 a 3.4x increase. 2013 is after the release of Win 8 and the surface laptop - so at something of a low ebb as the Ballmer era missteps were obvious.

The real history of MS was from before this last 5 years. 3.4 times doesn't make up for the missed opportunities




5 Years ago the Netflix share price was $35.17 (similar to Microsoft), today it is $361.05, a 10.27x increase. Maybe Beoz should have invested in them instead?

Beoz

Already did. My technology portfolio is looking amazing right now.

However this is about Microsoft. Shotgun to the foot was the term you used. Hardly a reflection in the share price.

As I have already told you, the OS is something you give away, the business platform to everything else you pay for.

Google - you give away the free search. How are they doing?

Simple business Garry. Get people in the front door, get them hooked, then either they buy stuff, or businesses who want a massive marketing list, use that giant user pool.

Land and expand.

Beoz

Here's another you might want to think about ...... Autodesk Inc.

I grabbed a bunch about 3 years ago. Been going OK. Lot of competition out there in this space but they are awesome at marketing.

They don't invent a lot of stuff, however the aquire tech that is good but not marketed well.

Amazulu

I use their products which I currently all get for free as I am still, err, a student

Top company

Beoz

Mostly their products are shit - there are many better ones out there in that space. However, like Apple did once a upon a time, they cornered the market with excellent marketing, and user club building. If you can build user clubs to do your marketing for you, its a business winner.

Amazulu

AutoCAD is excellent and their 3D plant modelling software is getting up there with Smartplant and PDMS - but significantly cheaper. Inventor is good if you need to do mechanical design (which I don't)

Beoz

Second rate products. Microstation kicks Autocad and as you said Smartplant kicks Plant 3D. Yes Inventor is nice, hard to split against Solidworks.