ozzieeagle

They can't, we can say it doesn't suit and they have to offer redundancy instead.


Different division, It's not post anymore it's Star track....and they are not allowed to take us off of night shift. Ergo if there is no night shift job, which are highly sort after because of the 30 pct penalties then they have to offer us redundancy. Unions mate unions

In 4 years time after the next EBA they maybe able to, but in this current thats being negotiated now, we've already past that hurdle. All penalties and current conditions to remain the same is set in and agreed. The only hurdle now in EBA9 is 8 pct pay rise, over 4 years the union wants 18 pct. Already applied to the courts for industrial action. Plus there is something about superannuation indexing in there. There is also a 25 kilometer move from current workplace set in concrete...plus the last thing they want is a two tier workforce with heavily unionised Auspost employees coming in with far better conditons and wages locked in for the next 4 years upsetting the startrack employees. You can volunteer to go but they cant make you.

Beoz

Oh well. Just fire (make redundant) the letters and start a fresh for the Amazon stuff without unions. Easy.

Beoz

So here's technology creating jobs.

Nvidia - they make those graphics cards in your computer. The company has been around 25 years and employs 10,000 people

They decide to build a building. These buildings just don't appear. They take 1000's of people to design, construct and manage in the future.

https://archpaper.com/2017/04/gensler-nvidia-new-headquarters/#gallery-0-slide-0

Apple is doing the same. A 6 plus billion dollar headquarters.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/02/apple-park-opens-to-employees-in-april.html

I did a short stint on this project last decade advising on and deploying automated design systems. These systems weren't designed to cut jobs but to enhance design - and yes its been in design and construction for that long employing tens of thousands along the way.

See technology and automation creates jobs.

Shard

In the short term this technology wave is creating some jobs (direct and indirect) but they are fewer than those being destroyed, and that trend will harden as technology advances. For example, they are predicting 3 million driving jobs will be automated; these folk are not going to be finding new work at Apple or Nvida. The tech companies themselves are notoriously low staffed compared to revenues. 10,000 at Nvida, what about Kodak that used to employ 145,000? The faith in technological job creation is a fallacy from the industrial age. We are just at the cusp of the intelligent machine age, it will change employment in the same way the industrial revolution changed agricultural employment.

Beoz

Rubbish

We have had the intelligent machine age for a long long time. Nothing changes. We crack on.

The blacksmith dies, so does Kodak. In its places are the exponential growth around wheels. Car wheels, train wheels, truck wheels. As for photography has it died? No we now take photo's on our phone, we take photo's as we play sport through GoPro's, our cities are monitored through every inch by cameras. All providing direct and indirect jobs. That's exactly why unemployment has been decreasing over the decades

Your statement on more jobs being destroyed than created is rubbish. Where is the mass unemployment? It doesn't exist.

And one final thought, if technology manages to create mass unemployment, who's going to buy the tech? No one.

In case you didn't know, before tech companies develop something, they do a return on investment analysis. Who's going to buy this stuff. If there's no one to buy, they don't make it. Simple business.

GarryP

Goldman Sacks (ahem) have been replacing investment bankers (at $500-700k a pop in salary+bonus) by computer programmers (who you can bet don't get $700,000) at a ratio of 4 > 1.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...re-threatened/

You can bet that insurance, accounting, etc. will be on the firing line too.

Their new credit card consolidation/loan service is entirely software run, developed by a small, in-house, startup team. It's all online, no sales staff, no personalised decisions, etc.

As I've tried to point out before - if it doesn't save them money, they don't do it. And that means less people and a smaller wage bill.

Shard

If you think we have had an intelligent machine age for quite some time, you have no idea about what's on the horizon. No idea. Ditto on unemployment. No idea. Nobody said photography died, but the number of people in the photography industry has been decimated by digital. Read "Rise of the Robots" (an FT best seller) plenty of economic analysis on the displacement that has already occurred and is to come. Random examples and anecdotes do not prove anything. I only mentioned Kodak to counter the OP's ridiculous point about Nvida and construction making up for job destruction.

Beoz

Old news. Traders have been leaving the big financial institutions for years.

Why? When the automated trading platforms are available to all, who needs a job at Goldman Sachs for $500k. Do it yourself for $5000k.

And with all the money and all that extra free time, what do they do with the money, they spend it, creating more jobs.

Its not about saving money its about making money. You talk about the loan consolidation service. No sales? Ok no traditional sales folks cold calling but that's old hat now. Sales has moved to marketing directing people to this portal in other ways. You need sales / marketing otherwise no one knows you exist.

Beoz

You are sold by a crystal ball fantasy.

The traditional photography industry has been decimated by digital but digital has grown photography and film and youtube and facebook and advertising and media and journalism and sport ..... get the jist? More jobs than there once was.

Nvidia didn't make up for lost jobs. There were none lost in the first place. Check the unemployment numbers. They grew jobs by making money from technology and passing it through to the construction industry. Get the jist on the trickle down effect?

Amazulu

How are companies that make consumer products and services going to sell those products and services if nobody has the money to buy them?

Beoz

They won't. The won't even make it past the R&D part when the bean counters look at who they can sell to ....... no one.

Amazulu

So that's:
Microsoft
Apple
Google
Boeing
Airbus
Ford
BMW
Toyota
Sony
LG
Samsung
Toshiba
Nissan
Philips
Sky
Vodafone
Verizon
Officeworks
Prada
Rolex
Swatch
Marks and Spencer
Mercedes Benz
Mazda
GoPro
Nikon
Canon
Pentax
Netflix
Optus
Amazon
Holiday Inn
Dubai
Singapore
Harvey Norman
JB Hifi
Dixons
Honda
Harley Davidsdon
GM
Emirates
Qantas
British Airways
United Airlines
Virgin
Lufthansa
Royal Caribbean
Hyatt
Accor
VW
Audi
Subaru
Alibaba
Embraer
Best Buy
Gulfstream
Peugeot
Fiat
Rolls Royce
Ferrari
Tesla
Ryan Air
Easyjet
Remax
Barclays
HSBC
CBA
ANZ
etc

out of business

A great way to grow and expand a company is to have no consumers - smart move!

Beoz

Did Siemens survive because the are conservative German engineering?

Amazulu

No

Those companies were the ones I could think of and then I got bored and stopped

Shard

It's a good question, and it will become a problem. How to those laid off autoworkers buy new cars? They don't. It's an economic challenge ahead of us which government and industry will need to solve. UBI (universal basic income) is being considered, but clearly there are issues with that as a basic level of income will not permit the high levels of consumer expenditure that economies currently enjoy.

On the other hand, consumer goods and services will become relatively cheap as labour is stripped out of the production cost. Look at the relative price of cars or TV's to income now compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Not the nominal price, but how many weeks of work are required to purchase a car/TV. Far fewer.

Interesting structural changes ahead in developed economies. Not saying that office/factory/driving work will disappear entirely, but that like farming, far fewer people will be involved in it.