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The world of automation

The world of automation

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Old Sep 8th 2016, 2:12 am
  #226  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
Companies such as Microsoft and Yahoo have struggled to compete with Google because they tried to mimic them along with trying to make it appear better or different. The greatest new feature of a search engine is anonymity. That's why DuckDuckGo is doing. There is a compromise at the moment for speed in results and more websites included in searches. But even google had to play catch up in that at one point.
Problem is, the search world is in the midst of another generational change. Now, that gives the non-incumbent a chance; but the change is from serving up pages that might be useful, to extracting answers and making sure the info/page is useful, using AI. And Google are well up there with the cutting edge in this, which I don't think you can say for DuckDuckGo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RankBrain

In other words, it's shifting from dumb search to intelligent search agents that understand both what you are looking for, and what the page says, and can even make inferences from multiple sources/NLP.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 3:01 am
  #227  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
Problem is, the search world is in the midst of another generational change. Now, that gives the non-incumbent a chance; but the change is from serving up pages that might be useful, to extracting answers and making sure the info/page is useful, using AI. And Google are well up there with the cutting edge in this, which I don't think you can say for DuckDuckGo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RankBrain

In other words, it's shifting from dumb search to intelligent search agents that understand both what you are looking for, and what the page says, and can even make inferences from multiple sources/NLP.
Depends on users and how they evolve from ignorant searches where they feel they are not exposed to cautious users who are aware that every search adds to their online identity. Google don't seem to be doing much protect users. They had a massive hissy fit over users wanting to be permanently deleted from Google and their services. I understand the hassle in doing something like that but to expect to have no responsibility for users information is disrespectful. If they were to guarantee a short retention of data and stripping of real world identifiable tags such as names, phone numbers etc, they would win the respect currently going to anonymous search engine companies.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 4:48 am
  #228  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
No idea what you're talking about now. DuckDuckGo has started in a similar way to Google in terms of getting its name out there. Word of mouth. I guess you have never used DuckDuckGo and probably never heard of it before today. In your ignorant world, that must mean it didn't exist until today. Companies such as Microsoft and Yahoo have struggled to compete with Google because they tried to mimic them along with trying to make it appear better or different. The greatest new feature of a search engine is anonymity. That's why DuckDuckGo is doing. There is a compromise at the moment for speed in results and more websites included in searches. But even google had to play catch up in that at one point.

Never said I worked for a software company before. But now I will. I have worked for software companies before. Not sure why that's relevant as I never held a position in marketing or research.
It doesn't matter if I have used DuckDuckGo nor what my or your opinion of it is. Its a matter whether it can grab the masses.

The masses don't care about privacy and protection. They just consume the easiest way possible.

Are the masses going to go to the Ducks website to do a search to for privacy protection? No

Are the masses going to download another app just for privacy protection? No

So really its only appeal is for the tech conscious, left wingers who hate big business.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 5:06 am
  #229  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
It doesn't matter if I have used DuckDuckGo nor what my or your opinion of it is. Its a matter whether it can grab the masses.

The masses don't care about privacy and protection. They just consume the easiest way possible.

Are the masses going to go to the Ducks website to do a search to for privacy protection? No

Are the masses going to download another app just for privacy protection? No

So really its only appeal is for the tech conscious, left wingers who hate big business.
The way you generalise is just too weird. Those looking for privacy are business haters? When you decide to rejoin our planet, let us know.

Google became incredibly popular because of the word of mouth free advertising amongst the tech savvy. It didn't shoot to the top because of a shopping channel infomercial (I apologise for using that term btw).
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 9:01 am
  #230  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
The way you generalise is just too weird. Those looking for privacy are business haters? When you decide to rejoin our planet, let us know.

Google became incredibly popular because of the word of mouth free advertising amongst the tech savvy. It didn't shoot to the top because of a shopping channel infomercial (I apologise for using that term btw).
When Google starts loosing market share to Duck let me know.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 9:48 am
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
When Google starts loosing market share to Duck let me know.
Obviously they already are. Or do you not know what market share is?
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Old Sep 9th 2016, 2:22 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Really. Firstly Mozilla needs the algorithms and better algo's that Google already has. After all, a search engine is all about finding stuff accurately and fast. There's years of of catch up there. Does Mozilla or anyone really have the appetite for that? Nope.
Almost everyone I know uses Google simply because of any combination of the following...

1. it's a well-known brand
2. it's the default search engine
3. they use an iPhone/iPad (same as #2)
4. they use Chrome

... and not because they actually did a comparison and found Google to be any better than other search engines. I'd bet 99% of people have never done an actual comparison...
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Old Sep 9th 2016, 9:47 pm
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by astera View Post
Almost everyone I know uses Google simply because of any combination of the following...

1. it's a well-known brand
2. it's the default search engine
3. they use an iPhone/iPad (same as #2)
4. they use Chrome

... and not because they actually did a comparison and found Google to be any better than other search engines. I'd bet 99% of people have never done an actual comparison...
5. Android use it. (Forget Apple. Its a dead man walking)

That's right. 99% have never done a comparison.

So what's the effort required, adding to all the other things I mentioned above for Mozilla to persuade the 99% to try something else?

Bing is the second biggest search engine only because its in your face inside Windows.

Mozilla effectly need to own a large, well used OS. Or get in bed with one.
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Old Sep 11th 2016, 12:53 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Firefox rose to fame without a Mozilla OS, simply because people wanted an independent browser instead of IE.

Masses of people would likewise ditch Google if a major, trusted entity came out and decided on an ad-free, spyware-free, no-data-retention, etc. search engine for all internet users. Basically someone BIG needs to take on the Duck Duck Go approach...
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Old Sep 11th 2016, 9:52 pm
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by astera View Post
Firefox rose to fame without a Mozilla OS, simply because people wanted an independent browser instead of IE.

Masses of people would likewise ditch Google if a major, trusted entity came out and decided on an ad-free, spyware-free, no-data-retention, etc. search engine for all internet users. Basically someone BIG needs to take on the Duck Duck Go approach...
I think that could kill it actually. For a tracking free, no advertising search engine it would have to be community funded and for zero profit.
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Old Sep 12th 2016, 12:16 am
  #236  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by astera View Post
Firefox rose to fame without a Mozilla OS, simply because people wanted an independent browser instead of IE.

Masses of people would likewise ditch Google if a major, trusted entity came out and decided on an ad-free, spyware-free, no-data-retention, etc. search engine for all internet users. Basically someone BIG needs to take on the Duck Duck Go approach...
Consciously ditching Google is never going to happen. It would require a sub conscious approach. Like Bings approach - the second biggest search engine. Place it in the users workflow by stealth.

So who would be that big player you mention? Well it needs business benefits. Just merely advertising it as a ad-free, spyware-free, no-data-retention, etc, engine is not enough, and provides very little value to the creator today.

DuckDuckGo receive revenue via search re-directions from Amazon, Ebay etc. Google too. The majority of Google's ad revenue comes from search ads that do not require knowing anything about the user, just the current search terms. This is the same as DuckDuckGo operate too.

So at the end of the day do the masses really care about what is being collected? You can still search Google without a login. It may retain the search phrase but it doesn't relate it back to you, unless you want it to by logging in - same goes for DuckDuckGo.
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Old Sep 13th 2016, 8:54 am
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
I think that could kill it actually. For a tracking free, no advertising search engine it would have to be community funded and for zero profit.
Maybe an entity like the Wikimedia Foundation could take on such a task?

Just thinking what they could do to generate at least a bit of revenue for the simple purpose of sustainability - maybe add some sort of affiliate tracking code for when (non-sponsored) store links show up for places like Amazon?
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Old Sep 13th 2016, 12:36 pm
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Default Re: The world of automation

[QUOTE=Beoz;12048083]5. Android use it. (Forget Apple. Its a dead man walking)

Are you sure you don't mean Samsung? Last time I checked people were rushing to return their phone. I think I heard something about it starting a fire... must be some new feature aimed at campers.
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Old Sep 13th 2016, 9:44 pm
  #239  
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Default Re: The world of automation

[QUOTE=astera;12050973]
Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
5. Android use it. (Forget Apple. Its a dead man walking)

Are you sure you don't mean Samsung? Last time I checked people were rushing to return their phone. I think I heard something about it starting a fire... must be some new feature aimed at campers.
You won't remember that in 4 months when all is fine, its battery life is lasting 2 and a half days, whilst all the Apple sheep are rushing for the nearest powerpoint after 8 hours of use.
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Old Sep 13th 2016, 10:10 pm
  #240  
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Default Re: The world of automation

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
So at the end of the day do the masses really care about what is being collected? You can still search Google without a login. It may retain the search phrase but it doesn't relate it back to you, unless you want it to by logging in - same goes for DuckDuckGo.

Can someone explain to me the direct negative impact to an individual of data being collected.

People say privacy, but I still dont get it. Google aren't the only ones that track your browsing activities, plus if your in the firing line, everything you do on the net is being tracked and those individuals are probably tracked and scrutinised off the net as well. All I personally see from googles data collection are time saving positives.

I think the whole privacy thing is blown totally out of proportion.

Now when and if AI or super computers can read thoughts or minds.... well thats a totally different story.

Last edited by ozzieeagle; Sep 13th 2016 at 10:14 pm.
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