the troubadour

Read about and understand how the Celtic Tiger crashed Your example of Ireland as a country as a country put forward as some sort of economic h light is very faulty at best. As for HDI, at least know to what you infer again, meaning the weakness of using such a measurement. Inequalities among other measurements are not a feature (little interest if much of the wealth goes to a small segment of society)
Back on topic. Socialism is nothing to be scared about. Indeed would in all likelihood make a whole lot more people far happier. Policies over the past few decades of neo liberalism has witnessed some dreadful outcomes and changed society for the worse.
There are some serious concerns with regards to lowering living standards in UK that need to be addressed that hold little interest to the ruling clique. Change is needed. Democracy is under threat as folk search for answers to why things are so bad.

Beoz

You do know austerity is where governments cut back and no longer spend money? It doesn't mean governments spend less on on welfare. Certainly not happening in Australia.

the troubadour

I'm sure with just a little thought, you'll find it is happening in Australia. The falling quality of university education as an example now dependant on international students, resulting in falling quality and denial. Note as happened here in Perth, to whistle blowers that attempt to expose the short comings. The shocking state of under funded age care nothing short of disgraceful. The ever falling New start allowance paid to unemployed ever declining in real value and barely of existence ability.
Government needs to be more than pure managers. Economy while important, is but only one aspect of running a nation.

Beoz

Sorry but you are wrong. Newstart payments increase every 6 months in line with inflation which is better than some non government real jobs.

Anyway we've gone a bit of topic. Britain will be fine. It always comes away with the resolve to fight another day. Just look at the football team.

the troubadour

No real rise in New Start for a generation. Even the most conservative of bodies like Chamber of Commerce has termed it too low. Government claims best form a welfare is having a job. Not much help in people getting one though.

Britain hasn't been 'fine' for all too many people for over a generation. Austerity politics has paid a heavy price on many millions. Although notable that less Brit's appear to be migrating to Australia.

Moses2013

Just read and you are right. I've been living in Ireland for nearly a decade now and while some Irish leave, others come back and in return we have a lot more other nationals than before. I went for a scan a few months ago and the nurse was German and my dentist is British. If you go out West, you'll actually find many Dutch communities who wanted to escape the crowds of people and nuclear power plants close by. Every place will have problems and they change from year to year.

the troubadour

So you would be aware of the great economic Irish melt down around the time of the GFC back 2008 Those conditions imposed great austerity measures on the nation , resulting in mass emigration to countries like Australia and Canada and UK. (to name a few) This period saw an outward flow of immigrants to Ireland as well like Brazilians and East Europeans.
In more recent times the economy has indeed lifted resulting in fewer needing to leave and indeed I have crossed paths with quite a few who have retuned over recent years. Most of those were younger, with no real intention to remain abroad permanently, but stayed away while conditions were poor.
Northern Europeans have from the eighties, sought out Ireland as a 'safe refuge' as clean and green and a little romantic in certain eyes. Indeed the house I lived in Co Galway, beside Lake Corib, last century was sold to a German artist woman who was seeking a degree of solitude in an Irish setting and paid handsomely for it.
She had no interest in the economy, just as well, as the area suffered high unemployment (prior to Celtic Tiger days) with the busiest days being the two sign on days which saw a queue stretch down the main street in order to 'sign on' at the post office.
Ireland like most EU countries will attract talent as you describe. One does wonder just how the under staffed NHS across the moat will function to the degree one should assume it would, minus EU staff. But that's another issue. AS for low paid workers from Eastern Europe and Brazil and the like, they will ebb and flow, just as the economy will. Ireland has some issues akin to Australia. High house prices (lessons not learnt there) people not spending but they suffer from a high government debt. Australia is king of the personal debt fiasco.
I wasn't aware of large Dutch communities though. Is that for real? Or just a sprinkling here and there?

Moses2013

Even after the so called Celtic Tiger, people were still far better off than the generation before that and it was a different suffering. People in Ireland at that time grew up believing that owning multiple properties in Ireland and abroad (150% mortgages), drinking champagne at the hairdressers and popping over to New York for Christmas Shopping was the norm. Even low skilled workers had the most expensive cars and everything else was solved with another loan. It was no melt down for many other Europeans who came to Ireland after the so called crash, because these people (including myself) never had these things in the first place. Then you could argue that thanks to an economic melt down, many others now actually have a home they probably couldn't afford before. Be it under staffed NHS, high house prices etc. there will always be issues and they will change over the years. If it's not the economy, it will be climate issues and overpopulation that will eventually get us. Around Burren and Co. Clare you can still find many of the Dutch who came during the 1980's (Anti-nuclear movement).

the troubadour

Well I suppose it depends on which people you refer. Not those that took out hefty loans on over inflated Irish real estate. Nor the developers, who thought the games would never end, resulting in lots of unfinished housing construction. Nor those sitting in houses paying mortgages on houses that had declined 30% or more in value. Nor the many, many thousands that were forced overseas to seek employment.
Obviously there will always be issues. But self manufactured issues as came about in Ireland, to which the Irish paid for dearly in imposed austerity , to which they took rather well, all things considered, without the street protests that impacted Greece and Southern European countries.
The economic melt down saw a large numbers of foreign workers leave Ireland. After all their reason for going to Ireland was to work. Ireland is hardly a cheap country to live. I suspect with conditions changing for the better, for now, more immigrants will again be going the other way, that being towards Ireland.

Moses2013

But let's face it that it's all about timing. During the crash was the best time to move, as you could still walk into jobs + property/was dirt cheap. If the economy is doing well on paper, just means that prices go up, you are paying more and are technically getting less for your money. Eventually people will end up the same and might find out that their mortgage today won't match the salary of tomorrow.

Amazulu

Although over development and reliance on house building/investing was a factor in Ireland's crash, the main issue was membership of the Euro. Ireland's economy was booming and needed higher interest rates to cool it down. Germany's economy was flat and needed low interest rates - which is what was happening. In the face of this disconnect, Ireland's economy crashed. This showed up a fundamental problem with the Euro - it cannot cope with member economies operating at different speeds. The solution to this is not to have member states but rather one state - the ultimate aim of Germany and France, but that's another story. Anyway, Ireland took its medicine and has come out of the whole fiasco stronger unlike Greece, Italy Spain etc. Which shows the superior Anglo-Celtic, Northern European mindset and attitude compared to that of Southern Europe

You don't want to understand the awesomeness of HDI in defining the state of nations but rather want to believe in mumbo jumbo and preconceived ideas. Your choice champ but it weakens your already weak standpoint

Socialism is great for those who don't have to pay for it, but not so great for the f**kers, like me, who do!

PittwaterPrincess

Not me. Could not care less. Hardly even think about the place at all, unless I am on this forum, or happen to see an Escape to the Country episode

Beoz

Looks like Boris has a mandate from the people.

Gibbo

Only from England and Wales and even Wales are beginning to rebel.

Beoz

They should call another election. There was something fishy about this one