Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia > The Barbie
Reload this Page >

Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Old Apr 26th 2017, 10:31 am
  #16  
Crazy Cat Lady
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Crystaltipps
Hmm, not sure I buy the safety argument. I worked in my own kids' school here and the Head was always showing parents around. They were signed in and out and never left unattended. I get that they probably haven't got time but it's a big deal choosing the right school and if they want a collaborative relationship with parents, it's an investment. Heads I've spoken to here have emphasised the importance of us being able to make an informed choice. My main concern is that one of the schools is a demonstration one so might operate differently to others.

Argh, I'm starting to remember all the Aussie red tape!
Not a case of Aussie red tape as far as I'm concerned, it's just sensible. If you were here and living in the area and looking for your child to start immediately, the heads would be more than welcoming to have you look around. Being on a short visit to the country and not in a position for your child to start is a completely different story in my book.

Once you move and visit the schools in your area, your child can generally start within a day or two so there's no need to actually visit a school until then. We all manage to do it and 9.9 times out of time we get it right.
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Apr 26th 2017, 10:38 am
  #17  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Lower North Shore Sydney (again)
Posts: 85
Crystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Not a case of Aussie red tape as far as I'm concerned, it's just sensible. If you were here and living in the area and looking for your child to start immediately, the heads would be more than welcoming to have you look around. Being on a short visit to the country and not in a position for your child to start is a completely different story in my book.

Once you move and visit the schools in your area, your child can generally start within a day or two so there's no need to actually visit a school until then. We all manage to do it and 9.9 times out of time we get it right.
Guess it's a case of cultural differences then as individual school visits for potential parents are commonplace here. There's a big push to being (seen to be) accommodating to immigrants too.

Getting the impression that I'm going to have to re-learn how to be an expat if we do make the move and generally wind my neck in!

Last edited by Crystaltipps; Apr 26th 2017 at 10:41 am.
Crystaltipps is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 9:35 am
  #18  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

The advantage of a private school is not that their teachers or programs are any better than in a government school - often, they are not - but that private schools have extra tools available and can do things like utilise a selective admissions process and expel students who are very disruptive to learning (among other things), which government schools cannot generally do. In a private school there is also a greater possibility that your child will be with like-minded peers as the parent can choose the school and its context. That can be a significant thing in a thinly populated country like Australia.

Admittedly not all private schools capitalise on those advantages, but being able to put their thumbs on enrollments certainly skews things like comparative exam scores and university admissions statistics.

OP should skip the school visit, especially as OP is not someone who is in education and doesn't know what to look for, even if those things could be judged in a 10-15 minute visit and 1 or 2 conversations with teachers, which they cannot (so, the odds are not insignificant of making a sweeping judgment about school quality based on false or irrelevant information like comparing uniform policies).
carcajou is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 10:09 am
  #19  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Lower North Shore Sydney (again)
Posts: 85
Crystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by carcajou
The advantage of a private school is not that their teachers or programs are any better than in a government school - often, they are not - but that private schools have extra tools available and can do things like utilise a selective admissions process and expel students who are very disruptive to learning (among other things), which government schools cannot generally do. In a private school there is also a greater possibility that your child will be with like-minded peers as the parent can choose the school and its context. That can be a significant thing in a thinly populated country like Australia.

Admittedly not all private schools capitalise on those advantages, but being able to put their thumbs on enrollments certainly skews things like comparative exam scores and university admissions statistics.

OP should skip the school visit, especially as OP is not someone who is in education and doesn't know what to look for, even if those things could be judged in a 10-15 minute visit and 1 or 2 conversations with teachers, which they cannot (so, the odds are not insignificant of making a sweeping judgment about school quality based on false or irrelevant information like comparing uniform policies).
Hello 'OP' here!

I'm not sure how you claim to have knowledge of my career background but although I'm not currently in education, I have taught and worked in schools in both the UK and Asia.

A uniform policy might indicate a lot about a school and its ethos. We're considering two high schools - one with a traditional uniform policy, which seems to be a standard well-rounded comprehensive and another with no uniform which seems to be less conformist, more arty.

Obviously nobody could claim to know everything about a school from a brief visit but a brief visit is surely better than no visit.

From Crystaltipps (not my real name but preferable to 'OP')
Crystaltipps is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 10:44 am
  #20  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
OzTennis's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
OzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by carcajou
The advantage of a private school is not that their teachers or programs are any better than in a government school - often, they are not - but that private schools have extra tools available and can do things like utilise a selective admissions process and expel students who are very disruptive to learning (among other things), which government schools cannot generally do. In a private school there is also a greater possibility that your child will be with like-minded peers as the parent can choose the school and its context. That can be a significant thing in a thinly populated country like Australia.

Admittedly not all private schools capitalise on those advantages, but being able to put their thumbs on enrollments certainly skews things like comparative exam scores and university admissions statistics.

OP should skip the school visit, especially as OP is not someone who is in education and doesn't know what to look for, even if those things could be judged in a 10-15 minute visit and 1 or 2 conversations with teachers, which they cannot (so, the odds are not insignificant of making a sweeping judgment about school quality based on false or irrelevant information like comparing uniform policies).
(Product of state schools and taught in state schools and tertiary institutions Victoria and Scotland). I suppose the big issue private schools vs state schools is whether the advantages you list are worth the extra you pay for? After all, you'd expect something more whilst paying an extra $25K or whatever wouldn't you.

There are also issues like going to a single gender school (which private schools overwhelmingly are) vs both gender schools (which state schools overwhelmingly are) to consider. Many other issues are involved of course.
OzTennis is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 10:49 am
  #21  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
OzTennis's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
OzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Crystaltipps
Hello 'OP' here!

I'm not sure how you claim to have knowledge of my career background but although I'm not currently in education, I have taught and worked in schools in both the UK and Asia.

A uniform policy might indicate a lot about a school and its ethos. We're considering two high schools - one with a traditional uniform policy, which seems to be a standard well-rounded comprehensive and another with no uniform which seems to be less conformist, more arty.

Obviously nobody could claim to know everything about a school from a brief visit but a brief visit is surely better than no visit.

From Crystaltipps (not my real name but preferable to 'OP')
Did you teach in 'formally Kirribilli' or informally Kirribilli? Sorry, couldn't resist, it sticks out like a sore thumb every time you post.
OzTennis is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 11:43 am
  #22  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Lower North Shore Sydney (again)
Posts: 85
Crystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by OzTennis
Did you teach in 'formally Kirribilli' or informally Kirribilli? Sorry, couldn't resist, it sticks out like a sore thumb every time you post.
Have no idea what you're talking about OzTennis but my most recent thread might interest you...

http://britishexpats.com/forum/barbi...wn-%2A-896016/
Crystaltipps is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 12:06 pm
  #23  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by OzTennis
(Product of state schools and taught in state schools and tertiary institutions Victoria and Scotland). I suppose the big issue private schools vs state schools is whether the advantages you list are worth the extra you pay for? After all, you'd expect something more whilst paying an extra $25K or whatever wouldn't you.

There are also issues like going to a single gender school (which private schools overwhelmingly are) vs both gender schools (which state schools overwhelmingly are) to consider. Many other issues are involved of course.

Indeed OzTennis. Things like parents wanting their children to get a religious education, etc all factor into it.

Australian parents also often feel they are paying for an "old tie" with private schools - they can take great pride in their children being "third generation Sydney Grammar [or wherever]) and that link plus the peer/friend network their child develops in high school is expected to play a major role in their lives going forwards which factors into the value of the "purchase price." Whereas, say, in America, that tends to happen in university and not high school.

Outside the cities, farm and small town life can be very lonely and isolating for children, and so those networks and the opportunity for the child to be exposed to a bit of the world beyond their particular patch of bush also factor into it. There are a lot of, for instance, country parents who don't want to send their kids away to boarding school but feel they have no choice.

Additionally - it is true that it just takes a few really challenging students, who are not handled properly by the school, to really gum up and slow down the education of many.

Lots and lots go into it besides just academic programming.
carcajou is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 12:30 pm
  #24  
Crazy Cat Lady
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by carcajou

OP should skip the school visit, especially as OP is not someone who is in education and doesn't know what to look for, even if those things could be judged in a 10-15 minute visit and 1 or 2 conversations with teachers, which they cannot (so, the odds are not insignificant of making a sweeping judgment about school quality based on false or irrelevant information like comparing uniform policies).
I strongly disagree with this paragraph. You may not know what to look for in terms of education if you're not in the profession (or even if you are tbh) but you most certainly get a feel for the atmosphere, attitude and behaviour of the people and the place. I wouldn't dream of sending my child to a school we'd not looked at and when I say we, I mean both parents and children.

When we first arrived I popped into several schools' offices in order to pick up their prospectus/advertising blurb and got an immediate impression and that was before even looking around the schools. Every impression we got about the schools were later borne out from being here and meeting people whose children attended those schools as well as the schools we ended up going with.
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 3:23 pm
  #25  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
OzTennis's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
OzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Crystaltipps
Have no idea what you're talking about OzTennis but my most recent thread might interest you...

http://britishexpats.com/forum/barbi...wn-%2A-896016/
No, you probably didn't; I see the formal profile has been edited. Be aware, whether you intended to or not, that you came across as implying in your comments that Australian schools didn't care about the parents of potential pupils, didn't encourage migrant children and didn't allow people to wander around the school when they wanted because of red tape.

Save
Save

Last edited by OzTennis; Apr 27th 2017 at 3:27 pm.
OzTennis is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 3:48 pm
  #26  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Lower North Shore Sydney (again)
Posts: 85
Crystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond reputeCrystaltipps has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by OzTennis
No, you probably didn't; I see the formal profile has been edited. Be aware, whether you intended to or not, that you came across as implying in your comments that Australian schools didn't care about the parents of potential pupils, didn't encourage migrant children and didn't allow people to wander around the school when they wanted because of red tape.

Save
Save
Be aware, whether you intended to or not, that you came as across as someone who has to resort to pointing out others' typos as a way of undermining them.
Crystaltipps is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 10:00 pm
  #27  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Crystaltipps
Be aware, whether you intended to or not, that you came as across as someone who has to resort to pointing out others' typos as a way of undermining them.
Its all he has.

Interestingly on the topic of public v private he does make a good point on the fee. The question is, can you or your children see a return on investment there.

I went to private schools in both the UK and Australia. I have done or orchestrated a few business deals through the old boys network in Australia. None as yet through the UK. All in Oz.

More recently I attended party where I bumped into a guy who in recent years has become GM of a large organisation here in Australia. Cutting a long story short, he lined the right people in his business up with the right people in mine, and we have just completed large deal providing a system which will make them millions. I did little of the work here but because of the intro, I made more than enough from the kicker to pay for a child in private school for a year.

A few of these deals I picked up through Facebook or Linkedin. Keep advertising your stuff on there and the old boys network eventually tap you up when they need something. As they get older and more and more of them become business leaders and decision makers I expect to see more.

So is it worth it? For education only no, but for the extra circular activities and ongoing networking and associated activities - it definitely can see a ROI.
Beoz is offline  
Old Apr 27th 2017, 11:34 pm
  #28  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Location: https://t.me/pump_upp
Posts: 261
geoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond reputegeoff52 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Crystaltipps
I'm not a 'School Evaluator' but I'm a parent and the 'feel' for the school and (perhaps more importantly) the ethos and approach of the school management team is surely something any parent should be privy to before signing up.

Confusingly this article stresses the importance of parent instinct when visiting the school: Seven things you need to know about a school before enrolling your child

I have already narrowed it down to 3 suburbs and 3 schools. They are quite different in that one is brand new, one is a demonstration school and one has outstanding results but is heavily oversubscribed with a tiny catchment area and tiny amount of outdoor space.

I just can't get my head around the fact that people are expected to sign 12 month rental agreements, which in turn determines the school, without even visiting the school!

It seems crazy and quite risky. I naively expected the system to be similar to here where parents are encouraged to properly consider all the options. I think maybe I've been away from Australia for too long
I can read all angst of the UK middle class regarding education, and things that parents do in the UK to get kids into so called good schools.
geoff52 is offline  
Old Apr 28th 2017, 7:30 am
  #29  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
OzTennis's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
OzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond reputeOzTennis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Beoz
Its all he has.

Interestingly on the topic of public v private he does make a good point on the fee. The question is, can you or your children see a return on investment there.

I went to private schools in both the UK and Australia. I have done or orchestrated a few business deals through the old boys network in Australia. None as yet through the UK. All in Oz.

More recently I attended party where I bumped into a guy who in recent years has become GM of a large organisation here in Australia. Cutting a long story short, he lined the right people in his business up with the right people in mine, and we have just completed large deal providing a system which will make them millions. I did little of the work here but because of the intro, I made more than enough from the kicker to pay for a child in private school for a year.

A few of these deals I picked up through Facebook or Linkedin. Keep advertising your stuff on there and the old boys network eventually tap you up when they need something. As they get older and more and more of them become business leaders and decision makers I expect to see more.

So is it worth it? For education only no, but for the extra circular activities and ongoing networking and associated activities - it definitely can see a ROI.
I've got a network of pals from primary, secondary, university and sport days that I've had all my life so of course it isn't only by going to private school that one acquires such contacts. You are probably implying that former private school pupils are 'better contacts or more profitable contacts'? I'm more interested in the friendships I've developed.

It's telling that you look at education in terms of ROI.
OzTennis is offline  
Old Apr 28th 2017, 10:56 pm
  #30  
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
 
GarryP's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
GarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Visit NSW school before enrolling - mission impossible

Originally Posted by Crystaltipps
But how do parents know that they wish to enrol their kids unless they've seen the school in action and met at least one member of teaching staff?
What type of things are you looking for?

I can see looking at results and independent reviews of the school giving you quiote a bit of 'good school/bad school' - but what will a physical visit give you in addition? Teaching styles? What type of kids? Physical environment?

What are you trying to get?
GarryP is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.