Crystaltipps

Hi there,

I have a bit of a catch 22 situation re NSW public schools - looking for advice.

We're coming over from the UK for a reccy in a few weeks and would like to have a look at a couple of public primary schools to give us an idea of where we'd like to settle.

Having e-mailed the schools (both large and over-subscribed with strict catchments) it seems that it's not possible to visit a school prior to enrolment. But how do parents know that they wish to enrol their kids unless they've seen the school in action and met at least one member of teaching staff? Also how do people decide which catchment area to settle in if they're going in 'blind?'

I suspect that they're very busy and as they're already full, haven't got the time or inclination to spend a hour on some possible future parents from overseas. But at the same time I'd have thought it was a bit of an obligation...?

Any tips? Do we just pick a school (and ergo catchment area) based on the website / published results / hearsay?

PS. We have lived in Sydney before and have PR.

Dorothy

You pick a school based on where you are able to find housing. Teachers and staff don't have time to be hosting parents who want to have a nosy around the school, and think about it; would you want a bunch of strangers coming around your child's school to have a look around? It's a safety issue that schools don't allow people to come and have a look. Definitely not an obligation to allow overseas visitors to visit.

Kiwikaye

I'm in Victoria, but I imagine the process is the same. You need to check out myschool.edu.au and Google "better education". Both of these sites rate schools and the myschool site publishes NAPLAN results which is the standardised tests run every two years. Then compare schools you are interested in with the rental prices in the area. The better the school the higher the housing costs will be, especially in Sydney, and the stricter the zoning will be. That's what we did when we came back, and again when we shifted suburbs to buy a house a year ago.

ETA: to answer your question more directly, I didn't visit the first school before enrolling my daughter, but when we moved suburbs I did make visits to three schools to check them out and they were all happy to make time for a tour. I suspect not all schools are this accommodating, and I may have just got lucky. If the school is very over-subscribed then as the poster above commented, they may not have the time or feel the need to host potential parents visiting the area.

In both cases, and particularly with my daughters high school, we needed proof of rental agreement or house purchase prior to enrolment.

Geordie George

To answer your question about how parents usually select a school: schools (at least in my corner of Sydney) have LABS annually - usually from June. LABS stands for Look At Big School. It's a chance for parents of prospective kindys to spec out the schools that they're interested in, before putting in an application. If you're contacting schools, it might be worth asking when their LABS days are (they're also advertised on school websites typically), if you're flexible with your reccy? The LABS days often involve a presentation by the principal, a discussion of the kindy curriculum, P&C presentation (discussing things like canteen, OOSH, band etc) and a tour of the grounds. If you're really unlucky, you'll be subjected to the school band performing.

quoll

There is the "backyard chat" method - cruise the suburb you're likely to be able to afford, strike up a conversation with a likely looking parent type and just ease into the "what are the schools like around here?" chat.

Then there's the "cruise collection time" method - wander past the school of your choice at pick up time. Watch the kids coming out, watch the parents and you pretty soon get a feel for what is happening.

Check the myschool.edu.au site for some vague indication about how the kids are performing.

Bottom line though, the schools reflect the neighbourhood they are catching from and so check out the neighbourhood and if you can't see yourself living there then you won't want your kids in the school there. Choose the neighbourhood because of accessibility, services, price, accommodation availability etc and the school will fall into place. Schools are much of a muchness really and depend on the current teacher, current principal etc and they change constantly.

If every school took every prospective parent on a visit they'd never get anything done and school shopping parents potentially take up a lot of valuable time - don't take it personally!

Crystaltipps

Hmm, not sure I buy the safety argument. I worked in my own kids' school here and the Head was always showing parents around. They were signed in and out and never left unattended. I get that they probably haven't got time but it's a big deal choosing the right school and if they want a collaborative relationship with parents, it's an investment. Heads I've spoken to here have emphasised the importance of us being able to make an informed choice. My main concern is that one of the schools is a demonstration one so might operate differently to others.

Argh, I'm starting to remember all the Aussie red tape!

OzTennis

The way around this is to get yourself on Wanted Down Under. There doesn't seem to any problem with the BBC film crews getting into prospective schools for a nosey.

The safety issue is real and shouldn't be underestimated. Schools in our area of Scotland are like Fort Knox with huge fences and locked gates during school time and security cameras which can be monitored in the office. Obviously one can get in if you make a prior appointment or know the security code on the gate but it tells you what the prevailing attitude is to strangers lobbing up.

As said, schools have open days/nights, parent teacher nights etc so just find out if they are being held when you are there. Oversubscribed schools have plenty of other things on the agenda to worry about instead of showing around potential additions to their school roll. Good luck.

carcajou

If the school is over-subscribed and you are overseas, I am not surprised that they ignored your e-mail. Ring or drop by when you are there, though they can just wave you off if they want, and maybe will do that unless you already have a property or a lease for their intake area. If you are allowed to visit you will be escorted at all times.

I am also not sure what the union regulations are like in NSW in regards to people visiting classrooms etc, or even if there are union regulations about that.

By the way - you say that you are determining the neighbourhood you want to settle in, at least partly on the basis of seeing the primary schools "in action" - what training/background do you have in school evaluation that will lead you to an informed judgment on the basis of this tour? I cannot think of one school evaluator who, going in "blind," would feel confident in making a judgment on the basis of a tour (during which you will see what they want you to see) and/or meeting one or two teachers. Maybe you will like the paint scheme.

Then, what about the high schools those primary schools feed into?

As another poster mentioned, schools tend to reflect neighbourhoods, standardised assessment information is posted online, and locals will probably happily chat you up about the neighbourhood school, which will be far more informative. Ignore the web site, if you go by those, every school everywhere is the most amazing place on Earth with the best staff, best students and best opportunities for your child in the whole entire world.

I would, frankly, narrow it down to two or three suburbs, and go from there (especially as you have already lived in Sydney and probably know the neighbourhoods).

Crystaltipps

I'm not a 'School Evaluator' but I'm a parent and the 'feel' for the school and (perhaps more importantly) the ethos and approach of the school management team is surely something any parent should be privy to before signing up.

Confusingly this article stresses the importance of parent instinct when visiting the school: Seven things you need to know about a school before enrolling your child

I have already narrowed it down to 3 suburbs and 3 schools. They are quite different in that one is brand new, one is a demonstration school and one has outstanding results but is heavily oversubscribed with a tiny catchment area and tiny amount of outdoor space.

I just can't get my head around the fact that people are expected to sign 12 month rental agreements, which in turn determines the school, without even visiting the school!

It seems crazy and quite risky. I naively expected the system to be similar to here where parents are encouraged to properly consider all the options. I think maybe I've been away from Australia for too long

quoll

Remember that Australia is very egalitarian - the schools should provide the same offerings (tongue in cheek!). The Dept of Ed would like to assure the parents of all prospective government school parents that their child will be guaranteed a place in a school as good as any other regardless of where they live. If you want to go into management ethos etc, look to go private, that's also a choice you have and the private schools are more likely to be open to selling their wares. Loads of parents sign rental agreements with never a thought to check out the school, equally, some parents take up hours of time, say they're definitely coming but then can't find a house in the catchment area so hours of time wasted.

Crystaltipps

Think you may have hit the nail on the head there - if they're all pretty similar then my worries are academic (no pun intended). Over here state schools can still be quite different - some schools give loads of homework while others don't give any, some have one or more teaching assistants per class, others have none, some are super strict about uniforms, others are more relaxed etc.

If there's more consistency in NSW schools, it makes the parents' choice a lot easier

xizzles

You can't go wrong with private schools - like Sydney Grammar for boys & Ascham @ Edgecliff for girls - should solve all your worries and concerns about inconsistency.

Kiwikaye

Assuming you have the money to pay for them. A cost of around $25-30k per year, per child can make a significant difference to your disposable income. Not to mention that you are still stuck with being able to afford to purchase/rent a home relatively near to the school, or face a long commute.

Beoz

I agree. Though if rugby is your thing I'd stay away from Sydney Grammar. Great chess club though.

Crystaltipps

Would love to but don't think our income will stretch to that AND a rental on the lower north shore...and any kind of life after those outgoings. Will have to see what kind of day rate/salary my husband is offered (if any) during our reccy but I'm not holding my breath!

By the way, what's the situation with state grammars? Are there any? My son will sit the 11+ here in case we stay and would have quite a wide choice of schools if he passes.