Originally Posted by mrken30 (Post 12163741)

You used tax and apples in the same sentence, so 50% of the US won't have a clue what you are talking about. We don't pay our taxes in apples , we use dollars.

Originally Posted by astera (Post 12163532)

He wouldn't? :ohmy: Say it ain't so, Amazulu! You practically seem infatuated with the guy. I could swear this is (political) love at first sight between the two of you. :)

Originally Posted by cresta57 (Post 12163729)

I don't see how you come to that conclusion:huh:. My simplified take:
If country A imposes a 20% import tax upon apples from country B the price country B gets for it's apples remains the same. The price the population pays for those same apples in country A goes up by 20% i.e they lose out.
Now disgruntled by the high price of apples the population of country A stop buying the apples and start cropping their own. All is good until harvest time when there is no source of cheap labour to harvest said apples so top price pickers pick them and the cost blows out to 30% making apples even more expensive.
Meanwhile country B finds that country C will buy their apples for the same price as country A so decides to sell the entire stock to country C.
Country B then retaliates by closing its land border to all trucks from country A forcing country A to ship goods to all its trading partners isolated by the closed borders. Country A has to charge more so it's trading partners stop buying their goods.

Did I miss something?

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12163807)

Yeah. You called them apples rather than drugs.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12163840)

A Trump like stereotyped view of Mexicans which doesn't surprise. The reality from the Executive office of the President (Office of the United States Trade Representative), not from Mexico or Guardian sources: ;)

U.S.-Mexico Trade Facts

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

One can only imagine what building walls and slapping on tariffs as knee jerk reactions to enforce his prejudices is going to do to their 3rd largest trading partner?

Substitute vehicles ($74 billion), electrical machinery ($63 billion), machinery ($49 billion), mineral fuels ($14 billion), and optical and medical instruments ($12 billion) for apples. Substitute GB for country C as May just happens to be on hand looking for trade deals from Trump.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12163849)

Two different things sport. But nice try joining the two.

The Wall - to keep out illegal financial immigrants and drugs.

Tariffs - to internalise US industries bringing back work for Americans.

The wall is good. We shall see on the tariffs

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12163880)

The wall is to supposedly keep out the immigrants and drugs; the higher tariffs is Trump's solution to pay for the wall - trade and border control intertwined by Trump SPORT, not two different things. Trump said the Mexicans will pay for the wall but his proposal is for American consumers to pay 20% more on imports. Presumably only Mexican Americans will buy the imported goods!

Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12163933)

As far as tariffs. I think just an opening salvo in trying to negotiate more favorable trade deals. Mexicans need US market, whether Trump can skillfully negotiate better terms we will see.

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12163933)

I believe it is very hard for a rational person to be against border security. One of reasons Trumps answer many people like is that for the first time in many decades someone taking issue seriously.

As far as tariffs. I think just an opening salvo in trying to negotiate more favorable trade deals. Mexicans need US market, whether Trump can skillfully negotiate better terms we will see.

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 12163935)

Yes, indeed. Trump's book-title says it all about the man and his Presidency: "The Art of the Deal". The man is a highly skilled negotiator.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12163880)

The wall is to supposedly keep out the immigrants and drugs; the higher tariffs is Trump's solution to pay for the wall - trade and border control intertwined by Trump SPORT, not two different things. Trump said the Mexicans will pay for the wall but his proposal is for American consumers to pay 20% more on imports. Presumably only Mexican Americans will buy the imported goods!

Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12163946)

Is building a wall a rational form of border security? The mayor of Berlin in the last 24 hours has urged Trump not to build the wall.

“We Berliners know best how much suffering was caused by the division of an entire continent with barbed wire and concrete,” he said in a statement, referring to Europe’s “Iron Curtain” division.

In the early 21st century, he said, “We can’t just accept it if our historical experience is disregarded by those to whom we largely owe our freedom, the Americans.”

Pointing to the continuing division of the Korean peninsula and the island of Cyprus, the Social Democrat urged Trump “not to go down this wrong path of isolation and exclusion”.

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12164124)

The wall may not by itself be the most rational way to control the border, but what president the last 30 years democrat or republican has shown the resolve to control the border ? Didn't the border agents union endorse Trump ?

The Berlin Wall was to stop Germans reuniting with Germans, and as far as I know West Germans were not sending guns to criminal elements in East Germany.

The current situation is ridiculous. Look at effect on Mexico- poor migrants dying in the desert or otherwise taken advantage of, drugs coming across border but just as bad guns flowing south. Mexico I understand has also been strengthening its southern border. I don't understand, why shouldnt USA take measures to strengthen its border controls ?

So what are social democrats proposing, open borders ?