scrubbedexpat098

This is the thing, Garry goes on about mass mental breakdown but if he stopped trying to overthink things, the answer is way more simple than he'd have us believe.

People have had a gut full of being told who to tolerate, the right way to vote, that being worried about their jobs and school places / hospital queues is racism. This problem is exacerbated when those doing the preaching are not the ones who have to live with the consequences (Fairly sure the Gary Linekers of this world send their kids to private schools, and are in BUPA) .

That waste of space Katie Perry calls for peace and love, no walls and open borders. Yet she has an $18m mansion with a huge wall round it, it's that kind of thing that has pushed people over the edge.

Don't get me started on Lilly Allan.

GarryP

Fed up isn't an excuse for their behaviour. They are the people actively making it worse by attempting to reject reality. That's not "oh its not good enough and politicians are poor", that's lighting the matches and attempting to burn down the house.

They actively lie, they are not interested in reality. Give them the data and they will bullsh*t till the cows come home that black is white and the data is 'fake news'. Then they will wonder why you don't take them seriously and 'don't address them'.

Trump isn't the cause. He's a corrupt, psychopathic, traitor that needs to be behind bars, sure, but he didn't create this stupidity. And you don't fix it until you understand where this stupidity is coming from, and cut out the cancer you can't cure.

As I say, I think it's a form of future shock, since they are forever trying to go backwards - usually to a hellscape where they feel they could be where they think they deserve to be; at the top of the pile. I'm thinking that the thing that kickstarted this malignancy into the cancer it now is is the static, even declining, living standards for the past 15 years. They aren't getting what they feel is their share of the pie, and rather than looking at the 1% who are actually the ones who've been running off with the GDP, they punch down and 'kick the cat' - it's down to immigrants, liberals, gays, etc. taking their jobs, taking their money, and they aren't going to stand for it any more....

You can't convince them by showing them the real numbers, since they have been transfixed by the lies they are told in far right wing news. They have been turned into brainless, cr*ptalking, zombies - wandering the landscape, destroying without thought, without strategy, under the control of someone else's plan.

Gordon Barlow

You're absolutely right in saying that Trump's supporters don't care about his problems. Despite what the sheep insist, the MSM do report "fake news", in the sense that just about every political story they publish is slanted in favour of the establishment. The thinkers among us know that; the others are in denial.

But I think you are quite wrong about the dementia charge, Morpeth. I think he's crazy like a fox is crazy - that is, not at all. The video release is a good example. (He didn't make it, by the way; it's an old video from his days with "The Apprentice".) His people simply added the CNN "face". He circulated it just to wind his enemies up - and of course the sheep who support the fake-news reporters. And, my, didn't it work well?! Precisely how eccentric he truly is, is something we may never know. He's an actor, playing a part: make of that what we will. But it's worth remembering that he whipped every one of his Republican rivals - professional politicians all. In the end, he even beat the establishment's candidate, despite the votes of millions of dead people and non-citizens cast in her favour.

It's a crying shame that he has been trying to curry favour with the establishment ("The "Deep State", as it's called these days) by allowing the military-industrial machine to continue the wars begun by his predecessors. For that, he deserves to be lumped in with them as a war criminal: for that, he deserves to be written off as just another imperialist bastard. One can only hope he has enough self-respect to regret that, one day, and to repent. His predecessors have never regretted or repented, so maybe he thinks wars are morally defensible. All his enemies think that, so the victims are no worse off than they were before. That's a terribly sad comment on the US's ethical standards.

scrubbedexpat098

For once put yourself in the shoes of someone whose standard of living is in decline, their job can be done by a robot, the jobs that are available are fiercely contested at the best of times, add what appears to be a sea of immigrants into the mix, and even the lowest paid mindless jobs are hard to come by. Add to that, that there are people that think you're nothing but a cancer that needs cutting out of society. I think I'd be pretty fed up and angry too.

GarryP

Fine. So punch up, where the problem stems from, rather than down.

Electing a millionaire (who calls himself a billionaire) to allow him to steal even more money is an insane action.

When you are in a hole, the first order of business for the sane individual is to stop digging.

scrubbedexpat098

But the way many people see it is that no-one is willing to enable them to get out of their hole. You're right about the declining living standards for 15 years or so, but in that time people of all kinds have been in office, and one thing they've all had in common is that there's a section of society that they consider as shit on the sole of their shoe. I think labels like stupid or racist are very wide of the mark, desparate is way closer IMO.

There'll be a revolution eventually, and that will allow the ruling classes to justify the wholesale slaughter of the poor, oh happy day The peasants are revolting.

morpeth

Reading your comments I think much could be applied equally to the left, and that both sides have become so polarized that progress has become almost impossible. Real numbers ? I am not sure it is grasped how many are truly suffering economically. Republicans blind to the need and moral value of people in an industrialized country having medical acre. Democrats and Republics lacking political willpower to address the cause of the problem- out of control medical costs. Then hearing Clinton speeches more regulation, more costs on business, more of the same. And the antics of the Trump supporters and opponents really cant be justified.

You say real numbers, well I lived in Midwest for a while and saw first hand the economic devastation in many areas.

Reading your words and how you describe people who think differently to me shows the same sort of intolerance and lack of empathy that you accuse the other side of.

morpeth

You may be right he is crazy like a fox, and I think he realizes better than the media and the left, people are simply fed up- and with some good reasons. Ultimately though, will he be effective ? It seems the "deep state" in collusion with the media and the Republicans in Congress is -- whether you agree with his agenda or not- will preclude much of his stated agenda being out into place.

The left is of course having fits ( they also had a lot of fits about Reagan)showing their true colours, such as the riots in Berkely about someone speaking with a different point fo view ! Both sides in the media/internet world while millions struggle,

I am not a doctor but hearing his interviews reminds me a family member who had creeping dementia.

GarryP

You are doing the false equivalence dance.

The reality is the lite right in the US (the democrats aren't left wing) have bent over backwards to meet the repubs in the middle. Why do you think the affordable care act kept the insurance industry, rather than going single payer? Why do you think labor were pushing for the carbon market in Australia, rather than simply curtailing carbon pollution? They have been overly accommodating to the far right.

And what happens?

Those far right vermin turn round and screw them; killing obamacare in the US without anything to replace it; and in Australia having abbott go back on his professed policies for political game playing and call it a "carbon tax on business".

They aren't equivalent, not even close. The fault lies solely with the far right and their destructive, corrupt, behaviour.

Hence why I say it's pointless to try to come to an agreed middle way position with them. They are fundamentally unfit, incompetent, and you need to force through the real policies that are needed, and then slam their fingers in the door when they try to steal.

For all his faults, Corbyn has realised a fundamental fact - you can't reason with the far right. They will take your olive branch and attempt to force it where the sun don't shine.

Beoz

Meanwhile on Twitter

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
·
Jul 3

At some point the Fake News will be forced to discuss our great jobs numbers, strong economy, success with ISIS, the border & so much else!

He didn't lie about employment numbers.

Poor old Garry can't take a trick.

GarryP

Trump touts 'great jobs numbers' that aren't actually so great - LA Times

For thousands of US auto workers, the downturn is already here - Autoblog

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-trump-hated/

although I'm sure you will suggest it's 'fake news' .....

scrubbedexpat098

You seriously blaming Trumpet for a change of taste in cars? I'm all up for tearing into him when he screws up but now you're just being silly

Beoz

For every left wing link you provide, I will provide one from the opposite spectrum. One day you may end up in the middle.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/07/03/trump-wh-budget-trim-22m-president-donates-salary-military-cemeteries

GarryP

I'm providing accepted, real, credible, news services - who are not in any way left wing.

You are suggesting fox 'news'.

Kind of says it all doesn't it?

(PS the middle is to the left of the democrats, that's where we're going to end up one day)

Beoz

You posted a Washo Post. In response and to encourage equilibrium it gets a Fox News.

We will never end up left of the democrates.

In many respects we are already left of Clinton with Trump, but if the world wants to kill him off, it will just go right.