Beoz

Spot on. Left wing hipocricy at its best again. Same can be said about migration. How many people are up in arms about a migration wall (in whatever country) but would be unwilling to put these people up in their own homes.

There is a line that needs to be drawn between sympathy and apologies/stupidity.

Beoz

Strong odds. But it is a two horse race.

Paddy Power don't seem to be doing odds that he won't be impeached.

renth

You might be able to lay it on Betfair.

knockoff nige

Way to miss the point. I wasn't suggesting that anyone apologise. But to call them good decisions is the opposite of apologising surely?

scrubbedexpat098

Point not missed at all, but the point you're missing is that no matter your feelings on the slaughter, aint nothing gonna change it, so what's the point in keep beating ourselves up? For someone who doesn't want to apologise, you sure sound like an apologist. Think about it, would you have had your life as you know it without the past, no matter how unsavoury?

knockoff nige

No mate. You missed the point. Accepting the slaughter as a good thing is disgusting. And my life might have been different if the English didn't slaughter Irish citizens, sure. Maybe thats where we are different.

scrubbedexpat098

No mate I didn't. I never said it was a good thing, but I did say that none of our lives would be what they are if history were different. So, if the old way of doing things has led to my family's present circumstances, then it has at least been good for my family, as it has yours, no matter how uncomfortable that sounds. I also said that I never slaughtered anyone, so I have nothing to feel guilty about. If the English hadn't slaughtered the Aboriginals the chances are you wouldn't have ended up here. You should be much more grateful to us English

Question for you, if you had a time machine and could go back and stop the killing in Ireland and Aus, but you knew that stopping it would be to the massive detriment of you and your family, would you still stop it?

Amazulu

Indigenous populations all over the colonised world were slaughtered, exploited, victimised - basically given the shite end of the stick. Not cool but out of that came the modern western world - the one we live in and enjoy. It's not nice but without that slaughtering, our lives would not be as good as they are now. Whether you like or agree with that is immaterial, it happened and you and I gain from it today

Historical facts. Historical givens. It is what it is

knockoff nige

Yeah you definitely missed the point as it wasn't directed at you.

I'll reply to your question with a question. Was violence the only way?

Beoz

I'll give it a stab.

No of course it wasn't BUT. ....

Neither those doing the slaughtering or those being slaughtered are alive today. No one to punish, no one to apologies to.

Two questions for you?

My grandfather was slaughtered in the second world war. Should I be bitter and resentful towards Germans?

What do you hope to achieve from these history lessons?

scrubbedexpat098

The point is don't say that past violence is a good thing, I get it, but crimes committed 200 years ago led to our current circumstances, and what I say can't change the past.

Probably not, but it was used and your, my and Zulu's families are all living in the sunshine in a wonderful place because of it. Now could you reply to my question with an actual answer?

knockoff nige

So i guess when you said 'Probably not' you got your answer

scrubbedexpat098

You are to questions, what Jimmy Carr is to tax

morpeth

What amazes me is throughout history in every culture acts were done which today one rightly will say were not admirable- but it seems that it is in the West it has develop into a guilt complex, or that only Western countries should be held accountable to current morality standards.

OzTennis

I'm mystified as to why I would be envious of someone who takes on Australian citizenship?

It's probably lucky for you that you didn't have to pass the basic English requirement they used to have though to a(c)quire citizenship, you just 'need to parents' apparently (two parents, too parents or something else?) Save the teach, spelling bee jibes etc.