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South African Farmers For Oz?

South African Farmers For Oz?

Old Apr 16th 2018, 11:15 pm
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by morpeth
Your concern for the motivations of politicians advocating a special program for SA farmers is besides the issue- would such a program be a humanitarian move by itself, and would it be of a benefit to Australia.

Good point that around the world there are people being persecuted- Christians in the Middle East, Muslims in Burma, and all cannot be let in at once. And maybe farmers in SA prefer to go to places like ex-Soviet Georgia, or in some cases other African countries, offering them a continued farming lifestyle. Whatever one's views about multiculturalism, common sense is SA farmers would integrate well.
Whilst there are lots of persecuted people around the world, this one was voted for by parliment and therefore provides a way for the rest of the world to be proactive early.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 11:41 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by morpeth
Your concern for the motivations of politicians advocating a special program for SA farmers is besides the issue- would such a program be a humanitarian move by itself, and would it be of a benefit to Australia.

Good point that around the world there are people being persecuted- Christians in the Middle East, Muslims in Burma, and all cannot be let in at once. And maybe farmers in SA prefer to go to places like ex-Soviet Georgia, or in some cases other African countries, offering them a continued farming lifestyle. Whatever one's views about multiculturalism, common sense is SA farmers would integrate well.
Well no it is not besides the issue, but in fact is the issue. Politicians to the right in Australia advocating such a move out of self interest without much thought just how it complicates the issue in South Africa.
Such a move has little to do with humanitarian motives but pure politics.
The impact on the country with the remaining people of that race, would likely be enormous. Are you playing into the hands of extremists ?
It does not amount to common sense on any level at all to aid those of that countries far right, for that it what they are, whom will cheer out loud with the beginning of the end of a certain minority within that country.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Whilst there are lots of persecuted people around the world, this one was voted for by parliment and therefore provides a way for the rest of the world to be proactive early.
Well no it does no such thing. Nothing has been acted on and there are no signs it will be from my knowledge for now. As in Australia, some awful policy is put before parliament and in politics all sides, especially those that wield influence must be addressed. Actions speak louder and at the moment there is little sign that the new leader wishes to advocate destruction to a large part of the economy not to mention other consensus.


The thing to do is make the government there aware they are being held to account but not to give in to radicals whom regards there is no place for the white man in RSA.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 1:25 am
  #34  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by the troubadour
Well no it does no such thing. Nothing has been acted on and there are no signs it will be from my knowledge for now. As in Australia, some awful policy is put before parliament and in politics all sides, especially those that wield influence must be addressed. Actions speak louder and at the moment there is little sign that the new leader wishes to advocate destruction to a large part of the economy not to mention other consensus.


The thing to do is make the government there aware they are being held to account but not to give in to radicals whom regards there is no place for the white man in RSA.
You mean like Dutton has already done? Next will come sanctions. Sounds like we could be heading to the old days of apartheid with the shoe on the other foot. Full circle by chance? Sounds a bit like this conversation.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 4:49 am
  #35  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by Beoz
You mean like Dutton has already done? Next will come sanctions. Sounds like we could be heading to the old days of apartheid with the shoe on the other foot. Full circle by chance? Sounds a bit like this conversation.
No I do not mean what Dilly Dutton has already done. More than likely influenced by Far Right web sites where the issue of South African farmers has become something of a 'cause celebre'.


Dilly Dutton was shooting from the hip, obviously without clarification on the matter with Foreign Minister, probably not PM.
But then he does appear to be an advocate of lower immigration so probably not entitled to be a full paid up member of your 'fan club' , but not a person we want anywhere near a leadership role.


No hardly apartheid. But some need to share greater spoils will be required and I suppose at 8% or so of the population the minority white tribe holding by far the greatest percentage of wealth will certainly be required to arrive at more imaginative ways to search for solutions if they are long term to flourish.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 6:55 am
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by the troubadour
Well no it is not besides the issue, but in fact is the issue. Politicians to the right in Australia advocating such a move out of self interest without much thought just how it complicates the issue in South Africa.
Such a move has little to do with humanitarian motives but pure politics.
The impact on the country with the remaining people of that race, would likely be enormous. Are you playing into the hands of extremists ?
It does not amount to common sense on any level at all to aid those of that countries far right, for that it what they are, whom will cheer out loud with the beginning of the end of a certain minority within that country.
Your post confirms that you have political motives in your objection to arrangements for persecuted white farmers. As I posted my opinion based on whether Australia can help a persecuted people, and whether that help will be of a benefit to Australia.

How would you support the conclusion that "has little to do with humanitarian motives..." and is from "self-interest" ? Is this just a guess on your part ? Do you know any of the politicians advocating such a measure ? Have such public statements been made ?

So using that sort of logic, should all immigrants or migrants have a test of their political beliefs , and only beliefs you approve of should be let into the country ?

I agree though announcing such a policy could have a negative effect on SA- but I also remember a few similar conversations about white Rhodesians, and we have seen then what happened there. When leaders of SA express such clear racist statements and support in practice implementing racist steps- in particular ones that will hurt the SA economy- clearly there is at a minimum a potential problem, and judging from the press and South Africans I know many think it is quote probable over time SA will descend into a worse situation.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 7:17 am
  #37  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by the troubadour
No I do not mean what Dilly Dutton has already done. More than likely influenced by Far Right web sites where the issue of South African farmers has become something of a 'cause celebre'.


Dilly Dutton was shooting from the hip, obviously without clarification on the matter with Foreign Minister, probably not PM.
But then he does appear to be an advocate of lower immigration so probably not entitled to be a full paid up member of your 'fan club' , but not a person we want anywhere near a leadership role.


No hardly apartheid. But some need to share greater spoils will be required and I suppose at 8% or so of the population the minority white tribe holding by far the greatest percentage of wealth will certainly be required to arrive at more imaginative ways to search for solutions if they are long term to flourish.
Greater share of the spoils? I thought South Africa was now a united nation? You are free to do what ever you like no matter your colour. If black people want to become farmers then do what the rest do ..... buy them.

How prejudice of you.

And by the sound of it, ALL farms go to black people (not some so hardly sharing the spoils) and white people end up without a home or a job. That's like the government here turfing you into the street and taking every penny you have (in your case isn't much). Combine that with the history of farmer murder encouraged by the nutter, that's enough for asylum seeking in my opinion.

By the way, you call Ditton dilly. Remember what we say when you stoop to name calling? You haven't got an argument.

Last edited by Beoz; Apr 17th 2018 at 8:24 am.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 7:50 am
  #38  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by morpeth
Your post confirms that you have political motives in your objection to arrangements for persecuted white farmers. As I posted my opinion based on whether Australia can help a persecuted people, and whether that help will be of a benefit to Australia.

How would you support the conclusion that "has little to do with humanitarian motives..." and is from "self-interest" ? Is this just a guess on your part ? Do you know any of the politicians advocating such a measure ? Have such public statements been made ?

So using that sort of logic, should all immigrants or migrants have a test of their political beliefs , and only beliefs you approve of should be let into the country ?

I agree though announcing such a policy could have a negative effect on SA- but I also remember a few similar conversations about white Rhodesians, and we have seen then what happened there. When leaders of SA express such clear racist statements and support in practice implementing racist steps- in particular ones that will hurt the SA economy- clearly there is at a minimum a potential problem, and judging from the press and South Africans I know many think it is quote probable over time SA will descend into a worse situation.
No I have no political incentives at all, but those advocating a hair brained scheme certainly do. I have already given you reason, that being white farmers in RSA have suddenly become 'cause celebre' of the right. Do you understand the meaning of that?


The Queen of the right wing propaganda machine in England , the dreadful, conceited, full of hatred Kate Hopkins is over there or has been doing a number on the 'plight of white south African' farmers in an attempt to further her career of hate, probably as a result of her LBC sacking and missing the lime light.


It doesn't end there, a whole swag of right wing western loonies are converging on the country (all quiet on the Muslim 'terror' front at the moment I suppose) The Swedish Jonas Nilsson but another, a charmer that wrote Anaracho Fascism Nature Reborn, whose doing an identical film project as are a certain hard core Canadian web site, not forgetting Lauren Southern and others .


Coincidence? No not a guess. The destruction of South Africa plays into the hands of certain elements out there.
If it can be shown a breakdown in civil society over there between race and chaos resulting, which surely would damage the economy if indeed thousands or tens of thousands of white farmers (how many would leave, up for debate, but we'll leave that, the intention is clear enough) the same groups will up their attacks on multi cultalralism in countries such as Australia.


I would not go to much on what certain elements of the press attempt to pass of as news.
There is an agenda at play here on all sides are mas evacuation is certainly not the way to go.
Such a move would wipe out most every 'dorp' and dorpie' in the process as many would become economically unsustainable.


Is Australia going to take in the shop keepers, the aged whites (now some of those are suffering with meagre pensions) and others, hey not forgetting the many thousands of homeless white folk living in shanties often side by side with their black majority compatriots? Not forgetting a lot of 'country side' Afrikaners are not particularly educated and would certainly require 'special visa's' to enter, or indeed is this only inclusive of a particular group, with an ill thought out plan by right wing side of politics, that do not have the best of intentions for RSA?
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 8:04 am
  #39  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

If the Afrikaner farmers want to come here as refugees, they can do what everyone else has to do, apply through UNHCR and then go to Manus Island or Nauru for processing. I don't believe in Afrikaner exceptionalism or why they should be allowed special dispensation or to jump the queue ahead of everyone else who wants to come here as a refugee.

The "they farm there, so they will farm here" logic is flawed; the bush and Outback aren't great expanses of empty just waiting to be utilised. They are not empty and are already utilised - owned by farmers and station owners. Some stations in the Outback are a million acres or larger. Your average Afrikaner farmer in South Africa isn't going to be able to sell their farm there and be able to buy in here. They won't have the cash. Farming is massively expensive and often requires huge amounts of debt and credit.

The days of just going out, staking a claim and farming it are long gone. All the viable land is taken, and anything that might have anything in the ground is also gone.

The hypothetical incoming Afrikaner refugees will need alternate employment in the regions, with the challenges that brings to Australians already here; they will either need something related through agriculture (with re-training likely necessary), or they will need to join the public service, which also will probably require re-training (and no guarantee positions for both husband and wife will be available in the same town).

So if Dutton was going to get through some kind of protection visa for them - I think the worst way to do it would be to tie it to regional settlement.

Someone brought up the Keren earlier - Katanning (in WA) has a successful population who now generally own their own homes and have proven highly employable. A lot of migrants from the Subcontinent are also leaving the cities to buy things like IGA franchises and petrol stations in the regions, making successful goes of those and integrating into these communities. There are models out there for Afrikaners to follow in a hypothetical refugee situation.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 8:44 am
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Greater share of the spoils? I thought South Africa was now a united nation? You are free to do what ever you like no matter your colour. If black people want to become farmers then do what the rest do ..... buy them.

How prejudice of you.

And by the sound of it, ALL farms go to black people (not some so hardly sharing the spoils) and white people end up without a home or a job. That's like the government here turfing you into the street and taking every penny you have (in your case isn't much). Combine that with the history of farmer murder encouraged by the nutter, that's enough for asylum seeking in my opinion.

By the way, you call Ditton dilly. Remember what we say when you stoop to name calling? You haven't got an argument.
I'm afraid trying your hand at African politics is looking as doomed failure as your venture into why Sydney deserves to be over whelmed and life quality waning in the process.


Ya Man, as we are speaking about South Africa are you purely 'onskuldige' or just plain 'onkundig? (innocent or ignorant) Do you have any idea about the dynamics of South Africa? Apparently not.


Do you have any awareness or knowledge of the extremity in economic circumstances experienced between black and white South Africans?
Pointless you pushing your neo liberal economic agenda in a situation where extreme inequality is fact. A country where until in recent history one group was very much advantaged over the majority. You write absolute nonsense.


There are many thousands of Afrikaner folk homeless now, many for decades since special privileges for poorly educated whites were removed after majority government.


Hardly surprising there is a few Right Wing nutters on the lose but at least there has not been a race way that some predicted nor has the minority white tribe lost much of their share of the wealth.


I agree Dilly is a bit 'soft' for such a politician as that but I'm a kind hearted sort of guy, sure others can think of more appropriate terms. And no it doesn't mean I don't have an argument, it means I have no respect for the person concerned.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 9:37 am
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by the troubadour
I'm afraid trying your hand at African politics is looking as doomed failure as your venture into why Sydney deserves to be over whelmed and life quality waning in the process.


Ya Man, as we are speaking about South Africa are you purely 'onskuldige' or just plain 'onkundig? (innocent or ignorant) Do you have any idea about the dynamics of South Africa? Apparently not.


Do you have any awareness or knowledge of the extremity in economic circumstances experienced between black and white South Africans?
Pointless you pushing your neo liberal economic agenda in a situation where extreme inequality is fact. A country where until in recent history one group was very much advantaged over the majority. You write absolute nonsense.


There are many thousands of Afrikaner folk homeless now, many for decades since special privileges for poorly educated whites were removed after majority government.


Hardly surprising there is a few Right Wing nutters on the lose but at least there has not been a race way that some predicted nor has the minority white tribe lost much of their share of the wealth.


I agree Dilly is a bit 'soft' for such a politician as that but I'm a kind hearted sort of guy, sure others can think of more appropriate terms. And no it doesn't mean I don't have an argument, it means I have no respect for the person concerned.
Nice speech, but still no excuse for your extremist dividing views.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 9:47 am
  #42  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Nice speech, but still no excuse for your extremist dividing views.
Obviously left you both speechless and unable to formulate a response of any note. You are the extremist with your neo liberal views attempting to transmit it on areas of the world you know nothing about. But hey its a free forum and all sorts of irrelevance will be dished up.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 10:23 am
  #43  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by the troubadour
Obviously left you both speechless and unable to formulate a response of any note. You are the extremist with your neo liberal views attempting to transmit it on areas of the world you know nothing about. But hey its a free forum and all sorts of irrelevance will be dished up.
Not really anything at add that hasn't already. Let me repeat. When a government votes for inequality, that inequality means homelessness, loss of income, and in some cases death, we should be proactive. History of century old land grabs, should not play a part, and payback should not play a part and your hatred of white south Africa has previously been noted on other threads.
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Old Apr 17th 2018, 11:48 am
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by the troubadour
No I have no political incentives at all, but those advocating a hair brained scheme certainly do. I have already given you reason, that being white farmers in RSA have suddenly become 'cause celebre' of the right. Do you understand the meaning of that?


The Queen of the right wing propaganda machine in England , the dreadful, conceited, full of hatred Kate Hopkins is over there or has been doing a number on the 'plight of white south African' farmers in an attempt to further her career of hate, probably as a result of her LBC sacking and missing the lime light.


It doesn't end there, a whole swag of right wing western loonies are converging on the country (all quiet on the Muslim 'terror' front at the moment I suppose) The Swedish Jonas Nilsson but another, a charmer that wrote Anaracho Fascism Nature Reborn, whose doing an identical film project as are a certain hard core Canadian web site, not forgetting Lauren Southern and others .


Coincidence? No not a guess. The destruction of South Africa plays into the hands of certain elements out there.
If it can be shown a breakdown in civil society over there between race and chaos resulting, which surely would damage the economy if indeed thousands or tens of thousands of white farmers (how many would leave, up for debate, but we'll leave that, the intention is clear enough) the same groups will up their attacks on multi cultalralism in countries such as Australia.


I would not go to much on what certain elements of the press attempt to pass of as news.
There is an agenda at play here on all sides are mas evacuation is certainly not the way to go.
Such a move would wipe out most every 'dorp' and dorpie' in the process as many would become economically unsustainable.


Is Australia going to take in the shop keepers, the aged whites (now some of those are suffering with meagre pensions) and others, hey not forgetting the many thousands of homeless white folk living in shanties often side by side with their black majority compatriots? Not forgetting a lot of 'country side' Afrikaners are not particularly educated and would certainly require 'special visa's' to enter, or indeed is this only inclusive of a particular group, with an ill thought out plan by right wing side of politics, that do not have the best of intentions for RSA?
Well thanks for expressing why you question the motives of those advocating helping the white farmers. I just disagree that your dislike of white South Africans ( which is the impression you give), and your own political views should come into play regarding a humanitarian proposal, and one that could be beneficial to Australia- especially if there was some regional aspect to a proposed policy.

What will happen in South Africa one can't know for sure, but recent trends certainly show at the least some of the attitudes and actions that led Rhodesia to such a disaster. Better to be proactive that just wait for another Zimbabwe-type situation to develop.
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Old Apr 18th 2018, 12:37 am
  #45  
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Default Re: South African Farmers For Oz?

Originally Posted by morpeth
Well thanks for expressing why you question the motives of those advocating helping the white farmers. I just disagree that your dislike of white South Africans ( which is the impression you give), and your own political views should come into play regarding a humanitarian proposal, and one that could be beneficial to Australia- especially if there was some regional aspect to a proposed policy.

What will happen in South Africa one can't know for sure, but recent trends certainly show at the least some of the attitudes and actions that led Rhodesia to such a disaster. Better to be proactive that just wait for another Zimbabwe-type situation to develop.


Sorry but I trust you read English to the standard of comprehension with regards to what I wrote.
A dislike of South African farmers? Where do you read between the lines such kak? What I have is a like for South Africa and its people rather more than some not very literate Aussie politician shooting his mouth of on a matter he knows nothing about.


There has been no move to take South African farms. I do not believe there will be at least in the short medium term. Such a move is ILLEGAL under RSA law and I do not believe the new PM is a Mugabe.


By the way, your comments on Zimbabwe, you are aware there is a new government in power that posses a far different tone to what has been in place over recent decades?


The latest proposal is to grant 99 year leases to the remaining white Zimbo farmers.


There has been similar talk in nearby Namibia for many years. Nothing has been enforced to date but situation similar in many respects.


What you may consider beneficial to Australia, the humanitarian intake off South African farmers, will not likely prove as beneficial as it may appear without some reflection. Neither to the Australian community and especially not to a large swathe of the 'farmers', for reasons in part I have already explained or at least touched upon.
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