Solar panels
 

Hi , we are in Perth and been thinking about getting solar for a while now , the prices have dropped but then so has the cents they buy it back from you ( I think it's 7 cents now) I'm not looking to make money just cover my bill we use about 15 units a day , so how does this work ?
Q1.. I'm using my electric in the morning / arvo which I'm hopefully making ( so all good) but what about in the evening , when we use lights , tv etc , are we then buying from synergy ? Or does the excess we have made get stored or does the meter turn backwards in the day ( this is what 1 company told me)
Q2...Is it worth waiting to see if the government changes the 7 cents per unit ( if they ever do ) or will the systems go up or down even more?
Q3...who has the best deals with the best quality converters and panel ? It's a minefield now 😏
Thanks
Sue

Re: Solar panels
 

Personally I'm waiting until the dust settles. One positive thing that has happened is the 5 Kwh system I'm considering is now half the price than when I first looked. Great Solar have the 4.94 Kwh system at 8,600 bucks... I've been quoted $16,000 by other companies who visited my house and sat down with me less than 12 months ago.


I wouldnt trust any government to maintain feed back deals. In the meantime I'm insulating my house as much as possible. Got to see how my house runs for a full year with my new extension and appliances... I reckon I've gone from close to 40 KWH per day to circa 28Kwh... maybe less. The remarkable thing about that is, I got rid of my Gas Heater and am running Two Induction reverse cycle Air Cons... so even with the Gas heating taken out I'm running cheaper. Definitely worth investing in new appliances and insulation.


My main bugbear is the amount of panels a 5 Kwh system uses, I reckon that will reduce in time as well.

.

Re: Solar panels
 

I have recently installed a solar system in Perth. I found the Whirlpool Green Tech Forum to have some very useful information. There is a Perth installation thread (very long).

Mods - I know the rules with regards to mention of other forums but hope you will allow this one.

Re: Solar panels
 

We would cover the roof with panals right now to bring down the cost of our leccy bill....

Re: Solar panels
 

Who did you go with? We're looking at installing solar but there's so many companies to choose from.

Re: Solar panels
 

Will send pm

Re: Solar panels
 

Q1
You will use your own power first (approx 9am to 4pm this time of year)
any surplus will be recordered on the smart meter [ you have to have one with PV installations - no other option ]
3kW system will produce "approx" 15 units a day on todays weather - partially cloudy.
During sunlight hours you use 7 units
Overnight usage of 8 units

PV fully covers the 7 units = a saving of 22c x 7 - $1.54
PV makes a credit of 8 units = 7c x 8 - 56c
Daily Supply charge (GST added ) ....... 39c
Overnight usage is.... 8 units x 22c = $1.76

as you can see it doesnt pay to produce more power than can be used during daylight hours .

Q2
The price of power will keep increasing - if the FIT (feed in tariff ) increases thats a bonus but the power price is more important.

Q3
Top quality systems are available from $1500 - $2000 ( very competitive deals are being offered below this also )
1.5kW system would cover all your daylight usage , a 2kW system would allow some margin for error - winter clouds etc.
Savings of $516 year makes it fully paid for in 3 to 4 years - its still a very good option.

as Ballys said whirlpool is required reading - Perth thread
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum....cfm?t=1883861

Re: Solar panels
 

Thanks everyone for all your info
I will check out the website too
:)

Re: Solar panels
 

Do you mean 15 kWh per day?

It's not incredibly bad, but my first approach would always be to see if I could reduce usage, before looking at solar panels.

For a start, its usually free/cheap to not use as much - installing solar panels costs thousands.

Find out where that 15kWh is going, how it's used, and if you can cut it. In general, if you don't already have a good grip on usage, you can usually cut 10-20% out of your bill by stopping doing stoopid stuff.

Re: Solar panels
 

FWIW, in QLD it costs 19c/kw to use electricity but 44c/kw (guaranteed for 25 years) to sell back so it is certainly financially positive to produce more electricity than you need. I don't know if such deals are still available as the cut-off for this was last June which saw the prices of systems plummet.
When buying a system - 2 things to look out for:
1) The "German" manufactured products (yeah, right) may cut-out at 60^C (standard for European install) but these will not be suitable for Australian conditions where you are looking at 70 - 80^C temps being reached on the panels.
2) Make sure the panels are hail-proof - again - not a European spec.

Re: Solar panels
 

Just in case....

http://www.graysonline.com/home-and-...ergy?tab=items

Re: Solar panels
 

Very interesting.

Probably a really stupid question but how do you work out how much you're using during day/evening - my bill just gives average daily consumption (yikes - 32 units)

Re: Solar panels
 

Hi Garry
You mentioned about my usage , yes it's about 15 units a day and yes I know how I can save , I'm getting rid of my 24 yr son soon lol he's moving out , so I'm going to wait and see what my usage is then .
Then my therory is to take a meter reading at 7 am ish and again at 4 pm ish and work out from that what I use and but enough panels to cover that , I don't want to make more electric than I need , why should I sell it back at 7 cents and pay for a big system it doesn't make sense ,,,, I'm keeping my fingers crossed this may change and get a bit more back ...
Cheers
Sue

Re: Solar panels
 

So what names did u use ? I always thought German stuff was the best now I've got no idea what to look for lol

Re: Solar panels
 

Sorry to be thick, but currently it makes sense to get paid (whether this is at cost) or a premium (in excess of current unit price) for any generation in excess of consumption...?

Ah! I see what you are saying: decrease the initial outlay with a smaller system with the aim of breaking even...

The thing is with premium rates floating around up to recently (almost 66c in Victoria) there was a point where having a big system is viable - a sweet spot. It's for you to work out of course.

Re: Solar panels
 

Cant remember and not important. Just ensure that the panels can operate above 60^C and are hail proof - German or otherwise. Some good deals on grays on line at the mo.

Re: Solar panels
 

Sue,

You could do what I did. Get a plug in power meter (selloff from coles, ~$4) and use it to find what each main item was drawing over a reasonable period. Put that into a spreadsheet with the power draw of stuff you couldn't get at, and see how close you can get the total to what your bill says you are using. Continue till you are within 5-10%. In particular, see if you can break out standby usage (X Watts x Y hours) from actual useful usage. Don't forget the lights, particularly if you have these stupid downlights.

What that shows you is where the big pie segments are. Likely thing is you will find some things that surprise - the big fridge usually eats power - and some things that shock - standby draw of entertainment bits.

It's rare that someone can't arrange things, with remote mains switches and substitution, where you don't save 20% of usage. And its essentially free, unlike solar panels. Payback on any bits you do have to buy would be less than a year (avoid doing it if not).

As for solar panels, its actually best to put as many panels up as possible. It's got to the stage now where the installation costs, by those hairy apes, is a large chunk of the cost - and it doesn't take much longer to install lots of panels as it does few. That's particularly true if you can get generous government subsidies now to offset costs. The inverter will need to be bigger, true, but getting 10-12 panels now can makes sense, if you can afford it. Know the actual costs to the installer and you can beat them down.

Oh, and the thing to really pay attention to is the inverter, and its quality. The panels will generally work OK for decades, but the inverters can blow and it's with the inverters that most of the cost is skimped. Focus on the inverter.

Finally, I think you can get a 1-for-1 tariff in WA (Horizon) - what you generate comes off the amount you consume. Thus you don't have to settle for 7c (spit) rates, which are designed as a disincentive to solar.

Let's assume that you get your usage down to 12kWh when the son moves out.furthermore, lets assume you get an average of 5 hours of useful sun a day, therefore with 200W per panel:ie the number of panels you need to balance exactly your usage is your average kWh rate.

That's very rough and ready, and there is still the electricity company rake off, but if gives you a feel for sizing.

Re: Solar panels
 

The solar subsidy and electricity buy back schemes, shouldn't sit well with a Labour government.
They are handing money over, to those who already have the substantial amount of cash needed to install these systems and making those who don't have that amount of cash, effectively pay more for their power.

Re: Solar panels
 

There is no way I'm installing a system based on rebates from the Goverment... To base install one of these systems based on rebates is asking to be let down badly.

Two major decisions I've made with my Reno.... Gotten rid of all my Gas Appliances.... you cant generate your own Gas. and Insulated as much as possible. I feel the negativity towards electricity prices and ignoring what is happening with Gas prices is taking peoples attention away from what is really happening.

That is the ability to generate your own Energy with no ongoing outlays once it's installed, Apart from new systems every 15 to 20 years. . This is the first time in history that this has been possible.... No amount of centrally generated Electricity prices rises can counter or degrade that simple fact.... Plus the fact that solar and other home generation systems are going to become even more efficient as technology improves, makes it a no brainer to switch to Electric only households..... Then there's appliance effiency improvements. Wait till OLED becomes standard in households..



Gas is now permanently a far worse option than Electricity.

Re: Solar panels
 

[QUOTE=GarryP;10005846]Sue,


Finally, I think you can get a 1-for-1 tariff in WA (Horizon) - what you generate comes off the amount you consume. Thus you don't have to settle for 7c (spit) rates, which are designed as a disincentive to solar.

Good post.But Horizon do not operate in Perth and the South West,so we are stuck will synegy and 7c rates.:thumbdown:

Re: Solar panels
 

You are probably right, I don't know the WA situation well enough.

I did find this useful discussion of metering types : http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/t...ed-in-tariffs/

Seems as if the way this works for you is dependent on the metering approach. If they measure specifically the import and export numbers - then you are screwed with 7c 'values' for your power. If they measure the difference between In and Out on an interval basis then you get stung in evenings. If they accumulate the difference between In and Out over a longer time period (a day upward) then you effectively get 1 for 1.

Re: Solar panels
 

I don't know about other states, but I do know that in QLD, it is actually the suburbs that are generally more working class and on the economically disadvantaged side that are the biggest adopters of solar. Energex publish a list of postcodes every quarter which shows who is actually installing where. It really does put to bed the theory that the rich are the ones adopting solar. The biggest demographic to adopt in the last 3 years has actually been retirees. Next it tends to be young families, but certainly not the sorts to drink lattes in Manly.

Re: Solar panels
 

I'm in the middle of doing the sums now and it seems whichever Way i add things up even trying to be pessimistic solar is a smart investment.

I'm going to see if I can get a 5kw system up for about $10k and that should allow us to get a small income and pay it all off in 3-4 years.

Haven't actually seen any of the slimy salespeople yet though so there's always a chance that I'll be put off and refuse to do business with anyone!!

(anyone here in Brissie want to give me a quote? :sneaky: )

Re: Solar panels
 

Brisbane is a good location for Solar PV, both in terms of sunshine, RECs and tariff. However, bear in mind that you've just elected a dirty conservative as leader, so don't be surprised if he cuts that feed in tariff very quickly. Make sure your numbers are robust to cuts in that number, and get in quickly, before he stuffs things up in other ways.

Re: Solar panels
 

Is it cost effective to replace a gas water heater with a solar powered option ?

Re: Solar panels
 

Definitely.... especially the heat pumps as they run on 1kwh. Jury is out on the longevity of the units at present though.

Tis the one item I've got left... a tempory fitted old internal GHWS outside.... which is in the way of some drainage works I have to to in the next 6 months. Not sure which way I'm going to go with that one yet. The Government have taken all the rebates of of those systems. Heat pump is favoured by me at present. I'm factoring in a less than 10 year lifespan though... which is the only fly in that ointment. I'll keep my eye on the Whirlpool site and see what the latest developments are.

Re: Solar panels
 

Thanks you seem to know a lot about it , Im going to take on board what you and everyone said its been really helpful , Im going to wait and see what I'm using when my son moves out as he doesn't worry about leaving his plasma, pc,lights,fan on lol ( but bet he does when he moved into his own house lol)
So did u roughly work it out that I might need 12 panels sorry I got a bit lost with your working out , I'm sure everyone else got it though lol I'm just a but thick lol
Thanks again
:)

Re: Solar panels
 

Very doubtful that its economic to do it , our gas hot water = $300 / year , would take over ten years to pay back and you would still need a gas boost through winter. Electric hot water to solar is a definite yes.

Re: Solar panels
 

Agree with what your saying , but unfortunately you cannot install an electric water heater in Perth it has to be gas or solar gas boost unless no gas is available. An electric heater run off the solar PV would make a lot on sense (cents also)

Re: Solar panels
 

Thanks for that ! Would you replace a gas water heater then at end of life or switch to Solar gas assisted ?

Re: Solar panels
 

With the rebate coming off solar it would appear solar hot water will get cheaper - weird init. The manufacturers pocketed the Govt. grants .
It was not that long ago that WA had a building code that all new houses had to have solar hot water [ gas suppliers nobbled that one ]

If solar hot water gets back in the range it used to trade at about 2 x the price of installing gas hot water , I think I would change , but at the moment the cost of a sacrificial anode will keep our gas tank going at least another 8 - 10 years.

Re: Solar panels
 

Mine is about 10 years old. With abit of maintenance it can keep going another 5 easy right ?

Re: Solar panels
 

With Perfs water our (anode) was 90% gone after 7 years , I plan to replace it after 5 years next time - its only $80 so it cheap insurance.

Re: Solar panels
 

We are thinking of replacing our gas bayonet in wall heating 'system' with a reverse cycle unit. This would be both more effective and stylish and also feed off our new solar system