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Shrimps On The Barbie

Shrimps On The Barbie

Old Jun 2nd 2023, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
................ over in my part of the world (North America) ........
I would have never considered the Cayman Islands 'North America'

Part of the Caribbean yes, but not North America. But Wikipedia suggests that everything down as low as Panama is North America - learnt something new (I would have considered south of Mexico to Panama as Central America - so I guess Cayman Islands would also fall into that region).

Food for thought

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Old Jun 2nd 2023, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
I would have never considered the Cayman Islands 'North America'
Part of the Caribbean yes, but not North America. But Wikipedia suggests that everything down as low as Panama is North America - learnt something new (I would have considered south of Mexico to Panama as Central America - so I guess Cayman Islands would also fall into that region). Food for thought
A fair point, Sparkles. I've never really thought about it. North America is the closest of the world's continent to the Islands, that's all. The only islands that I wouldn't describe as belonging to a continent, are in the region called Oceania. Even Indonesia is recognised as being part of Asia.

I have read that North America comprises Canada, USA and Mexico, because Mexicans don't like being lumped in with the smaller nations of Central America! Too bad, amigos: Central America is not a continent!
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Old Jun 2nd 2023, 8:54 pm
  #243  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
They call it "virtue signalling" over in my part of the world (North America): it's showing-off that you know the latest rules of conversation and propriety. A lawyer friend of mine was chastised the other day for saying that a judge had "gone off the reservation" in making some courtroom comment that she should not have done. The chastisement came from a Canadian present, who complained that my friend's comment was "a bit racist"! Because many North American Indians live in their own communities on what are called reservations. He and I agreed that it was a foolish stretch to call his comment "racist" - and that the Canadian had been virtue-signalling.

Since we're all standing around our imaginary barbecue with no particular agenda, and since I haven't lived in Australia since 1971, I would like to know when it became "racist" to abbreviate the term "aboriginal" in Australia, and why. When I left, the abbreviation was both normal and common. It was in no way disparaging, and it seems to me that it is "virtue-signalling" to label it racist today. And, why? Did one or two or some or all of the aboriginal groups object, or was it some white man's sensitivity?

With the rediscovery of small groups of pygmies living in Australia (perhaps akin to the pygmies of Flores Island in Indonesia), it is being suggested by some professional historians that they might have been the first settlers in Australia. Perhaps, too, the earliest of them might have been killed off by the later immigrants whom we call the aboriginals. If that proves to be the case... well, what a conundrum! Would it suddenly be kosher to revive the abbreviation? Or should we somehow re-define the term "aboriginal"?

(I don't want to open a special thread for this topic. raising it around the barbie is fair enough, I think.)
I live in a western NSW town with a large indigenous population. I’ve only heard ‘abo’ used exactly as you describe, disparagingly, and not at all by Aboriginal people themselves. It’s not a neutral term at all and is considered racist. Disclaimer: I’ve only lived in Australia for 15 years, so I’ve no idea when it sailed into oblivion, it hasn’t been contemporary in my time.

Interesting, the Canadian term First Nations, is starting to be used quite often.
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Old Jun 5th 2023, 5:23 am
  #244  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Rainydaze
I live in a western NSW town with a large indigenous population. I’ve only heard ‘abo’ used exactly as you describe, disparagingly, and not at all by Aboriginal people themselves. It’s not a neutral term at all and is considered racist. Disclaimer: I’ve only lived in Australia for 15 years, so I’ve no idea when it sailed into oblivion, it hasn’t been contemporary in my time.
Well, my home State of Queensland has always been a bit slow in picking up new trends, so going Woke by abandoning the common abbreviation for the full five-syllable version probably took a while to catch on. What about other -o words - are they still acceptable? Garbo, rabbitoh, Nasho, sicko, homo, drongo...? In the bush, my Dad used to break off in the middle of a job for a smoko now and then. Would that be allowed these days? (It's okay: I'm only joking about that!)
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Old Jun 10th 2023, 5:49 am
  #245  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

I don't know how anybody else feels, but I'm pleased to note the emergence of the newly coined word "blak", used by some light-brown Australians with aboriginal blood. I hope it catches on all over the world.

I live in a community where black is a colour, not a genetic factor; so the Australian change is not needed here. In conversation, we distinguish "black" from "very dark" and "pretty dark". Darkest of all is "black-black". When I first came to live in Cayman, a "pretty dark" member of my staff explained that one of her grandmothers from one of the eastern Islands had been a Carib, so it would be incorrect to call her (the daughter) "black". Caribs were or had been a South American race who inter-married with former slaves brought from Africa. She (the granddaughter) told me with a smile that she would describe herself as "dark chocolate". It was spot on, and a valuable lesson for me.
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Old Jun 13th 2023, 10:11 am
  #246  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Since we're all gathered 'round our pretend-barbie, here's something for new immigrants to Oz...

You will all know that Australia was invaded and conquered by the British army and navy in the late 1700s, as a place to send Britain's criminals. But many of you may not know that voluntary settlers were welcomed, too, from the beginning. My own personal ancestors were among them, and were representative of that early population. Only one of my lot was a "doubtful" - a chap who may have been a criminal. His name was John Hickey, and there were four or five John Hickeys arriving in the same year in the mid-1800s, only one of them transported free of charge. I've not been able to tell which of them was mine. My man brought his family with him, but that was a common enough practice.

All my English immigrants paid their own way, for one reason or another. They were all either "straight" or at least smart enough to avoid being caught doing anything illegal. They were a typical bunch. Here's a quick list.
Godsall - a Herefordshire tenant-farmer, settled in Toowoomba, Queensland, and became a very successful builder. He married one of the Hickey girls, whose father had been a dirt-farmer in a no-account village in Tipperary.
Hancock - a wool-comber from Cornwall, who went as a strike-breaker to Leeds before emigrating to Queensland and did very well as a timber-merchant in Ipswich.
Hayne - a village blacksmith in Somerset who went blacksmithing in that same Ipswich; his daughter married the Hancock.
Millard - a Police Constable in Bath, Somerset, who applied for a "selection" (undeveloped acreage) in Mackay, Queensland, on which he planted sugar-cane. Well, not personally, you understand; the planting would have been done by Pacific Islanders who had been trafficked from their homes to eastern parts of Australia as indentured labourers.
Treloar - a tenant-farmer in Cornwall who settled outside Mackay and whose daughter married the Millard.

My Barlow line didn't reach Australia until the 1920s, when a sea-captain born in Bath married a Godsall daughter and lived off her money for the rest of his life. My mother (his daughter-in-law) hated him, and she was a good judge of character.
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Old Jun 13th 2023, 1:26 pm
  #247  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
Well, my home State of Queensland has always been a bit slow in picking up new trends, so going Woke by abandoning the common abbreviation for the full five-syllable version probably took a while to catch on. What about other -o words - are they still acceptable? Garbo, rabbitoh, Nasho, sicko, homo, drongo...? In the bush, my Dad used to break off in the middle of a job for a smoko now and then. Would that be allowed these days? (It's okay: I'm only joking about that!)
Smoko is alive-o and well. My favourite shortform is firie. As well as arvo. I had a funny book years ago, a guide to Australia, which explained that words were shortened to expedite the time your mouth needed to be open. Because of bushies. I’m sure you remember bushies
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Old Jun 19th 2023, 6:50 am
  #248  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

The reason why I identified all my emigrant/immigrant ancestors was to tell BE members here, something about their predecessors. Except for the Barlow, none of mine had two cents to rub together; I've no idea how they afforded the fare. When they arrived, the British settlements were still expanding at the expense of the aboriginal clans and tribes (there were no aboriginal "nations"). The settlements were gradually growing into "colonies" - five of them began as convict open-air prisons; only South Australia never had convicts. In 1901 they were joined as a single Commonwealth of Australia.

My people all settled in Queensland, Linda's all in Victoria - all free settlers with the possible exception of my John Hickey. Some smartass English visitor a few decades ago was asked by a border official if he had a criminal record. He (the visitor) apologised, saying "I'm terribly sorry: I didn't know it was still compulsory." So it is said...
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Old Jun 29th 2023, 9:30 am
  #249  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
The reason why I identified all my emigrant/immigrant ancestors was to tell BE members here, something about their predecessors... Except for the Barlow, none of mine had two cents to rub together; I've no idea how they afforded the fare. When they arrived, the British settlements were still expanding at the expense of the aboriginal clans and tribes (there were no aboriginal "nations").
Sometimes the aboriginals fought back. One of my grandfather's brothers disappeared while panning for gold in northern Queensland, in 1898. Somewhere in all my junk I have the envelope that had enclosed his mother's last letter to him. It had come back to her stamped "UNDELIVERED". She wrote on it "Graham was never heard of again". Poor mother!

There is no evidence that he was killed by aboriginals, but there were reports of other panners who had been killed in that vicinity, so it's a reasonable guess. The outsiders didn't respect any of the natives' sacred grounds.
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Old Jul 6th 2023, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Rainydaze
Smoko is alive-o and well. My favourite shortform is firie. As well as arvo. I had a funny book years ago, a guide to Australia, which explained that words were shortened to expedite the time your mouth needed to be open. Because of bushies. I’m sure you remember bushies
No, Rainy, I don't remember "bushies"! I presume it's what we called blow-flies, up in Queensland. Arvo I well recall, and still use it. "Firie" is a word that came of age some time after I left Oz (Perth) in 1972, as is "tradie" and similar -ie words. My favourite -ie words are the combination "Chrissie prezzie"; Very popular in Brizzie, back in the day. Did you ever get to read "Let Stalk Strine"?
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Old Jul 18th 2023, 9:41 am
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

So. What's the sentiment around the barbie today, about the big referendum? If I were living there and entitled to vote, I would probably vote NO, because it seems to me that the aboriginal communities in Australia - all 200 of them or 2000 of them, whichever it is - are themselves divided on the topic of The Voice. Well, of course they are! Europe has only forty or so languages in an area not much bigger, and they've all been at war with one another for the past several thousand years, so it's only to be expected that the Australian natives will disagree among themselves.

Also, I see that the term "aboriginal" is applied to everybody with the merest trace of native blood. Does someone with one aboriginal great-great-grandparent have the same say as someone with eight of them? Will they both receive the same reparations, when that comes up on the agenda? What does the BE "team" think?

Is this a good subject for our gathering around the barbie this week, or what!
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Old Jul 18th 2023, 11:29 pm
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
So. What's the sentiment around the barbie today, about the big referendum? If I were living there and entitled to vote, I would probably vote NO, because it seems to me that the aboriginal communities in Australia - all 200 of them or 2000 of them, whichever it is - are themselves divided on the topic of The Voice. Well, of course they are! Europe has only forty or so languages in an area not much bigger, and they've all been at war with one another for the past several thousand years, so it's only to be expected that the Australian natives will disagree among themselves.

Also, I see that the term "aboriginal" is applied to everybody with the merest trace of native blood. Does someone with one aboriginal great-great-grandparent have the same say as someone with eight of them? Will they both receive the same reparations, when that comes up on the agenda? What does the BE "team" think?

Is this a good subject for our gathering around the barbie this week, or what!
Will I Vote In The Referendum?
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Old Jul 19th 2023, 3:02 am
  #253  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Gordon you have been a BE member for some time, surely you are aware of the site protocols. Rather than posting the above, please hit the report post tab if there is a problem with a post/thread. If moderators deem it in breach of site rules, it will be deleted, edited or left in situ.

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Old Jul 22nd 2023, 2:51 pm
  #254  
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
So. What's the sentiment around the barbie today, about the big referendum? If I were living there and entitled to vote, I would probably vote NO, because it seems to me that the aboriginal communities in Australia - all 200 of them or 2000 of them, whichever it is - are themselves divided on the topic of The Voice. Well, of course they are! Europe has only forty or so languages in an area not much bigger, and they've all been at war with one another for the past several thousand years, so it's only to be expected that the Australian natives will disagree among themselves.

Also, I see that the term "aboriginal" is applied to everybody with the merest trace of native blood. Does someone with one aboriginal great-great-grandparent have the same say as someone with eight of them? Will they both receive the same reparations, when that comes up on the agenda? What does the BE "team" think?

Is this a good subject for our gathering around the barbie this week, or what!
It's a bit of a taboo topic around the barbie, dinner parties, etc. Partly because no one is really informed and also because of fear of being called a racist if the policy is questioned. Quite frankly it's the most bizarre referendum. I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled.
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Old Jul 25th 2023, 3:52 am
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Default Re: Shrimps On The Barbie

Originally Posted by Beoz
It's a bit of a taboo topic around the barbie, dinner parties, etc. Partly because no one is really informed and also because of fear of being called a racist if the policy is questioned. Quite frankly it's the most bizarre referendum. I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled.
It certainly seems to be a very political issue! It seems to be taboo to even hint that there might have been people living in Australia before the ancestors of today's aboriginals arrived. One puzzle that is rarely commented on, is the large number of apparently unrelated languages spoken by the aboriginals. Unrelated languages usually signify unrelated communities, everywhere in the world and everywhere in history - although the degree of "unrelated" varies, of course.

Here below is a link to an article sent to me by a friend in Queensland. Very interesting. The same friend has sent me reports of a tribe of pygmies that used to live in the jungles there and now live in a reservation on the coast.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/abor...d%20perception
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