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-   -   Should "euthanasia" be legalized? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/barbie-92/should-euthanasia-legalized-686359/)

the_gripmaster Sep 21st 2010 2:42 am
Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
I would support the idea. As individuals, we are the owner of our own lives.

MrJenkins Sep 21st 2010 2:51 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
And why would you poll this on a Forum that primarily deals with moving overseas? Or has your move been that traumatic you feel you need to take your own life. :rofl:

northernbird Sep 21st 2010 2:54 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
In theory I agree but in practice I am not sure. 15 years ago next month I watched my Mother lose her battle with cancer at 49 years old. It was traumatic to watch. Nobody should have to go through what she went through with her family watching on waiting for the inevitable. However, could I as her next of kin gone along with a decision to end her own life even though it was going to end imminently. Tough call for me.

the_gripmaster Sep 21st 2010 2:59 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by MrJenkins (Post 8865171)
And why would you poll this on a Forum that primarily deals with moving overseas? Or has your move been that traumatic you feel you need to take your own life. :rofl:
Forgive my ignorance milord, but there is a sub-forum called "Immigration, Visas & Citizenship.":cool:

the_gripmaster Sep 21st 2010 3:03 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by northernbird (Post 8865176)
In theory I agree but in practice I am not sure. 15 years ago next month I watched my Mother lose her battle with cancer at 49 years old. It was traumatic to watch. Nobody should have to go through what she went through with her family watching on waiting for the inevitable. However, could I as her next of kin gone along with a decision to end her own life even though it was going to end imminently. Tough call for me.
Sorry to hear about your mother. I understand how difficult it is to take any decision like that when the time comes.

Bernieboy Sep 21st 2010 3:05 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Having watched quite a few people young and old die in pain then im a YES:thumbup:

MrJenkins Sep 21st 2010 4:18 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by the_gripmaster (Post 8865193)
Forgive my ignorance milord, but there is a sub-forum called "Immigration, Visas & Citizenship.":cool:
This is true :o However a bit of a heavy subject for this forum in general, but hey ho everyone has a right to voice an opinion.

MartinLuther Sep 21st 2010 9:14 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
It's not a decision that I would like to make (and hopefully wont) but I would go Yes. There are times when it may be necessary or desirable and I can't deny anyone the right to make that decision.

Dreamy Sep 21st 2010 9:52 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
I'd say yes - but its an area that needs very careful and thoughtful legislation.

Dorothy Sep 21st 2010 10:35 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by MrJenkins (Post 8865455)
This is true :o However a bit of a heavy subject for this forum in general, but hey ho everyone has a right to voice an opinion.
Um, this is The Barbie which is for off-topic discussions. There have been hundreds of "heavy" subjects discussed here over the years. Not sure why you clicked on the thread if you don't like the subject matter.

Dorothy Sep 21st 2010 10:36 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
With proper regulation I think I would have to vote yes. It already happens so I think the fear of prosecution should be removed if certain conditions are met.

Swerv-o Sep 21st 2010 10:41 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by MrJenkins (Post 8865171)
And why would you poll this on a Forum that primarily deals with moving overseas? Or has your move been that traumatic you feel you need to take your own life. :rofl:

Because Senator Brown is supporting an action in Federal Parliament to allow the Territories to determine their own policy on euthanasia.

The Northern Territory used to allow euthanasia, and four people chose to use it before the law was overturned by a Private Members Bill in the first Howard Government. It was a rare occasion where a private members bill was supported to conclusion.

So, in answer to your question, it's a topic that is 'in the news' in Australia, and probably deserves debate - Unless Stephen Conroy has his way - Websites discussing euthanasia are on his hit list for the internet filter.


S

Bernieboy Sep 21st 2010 10:49 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Swerv-o (Post 8866560)
Because Senator Brown is supporting an action in Federal Parliament to allow the Territories to determine their own policy on euthanasia.

The Northern Territory used to allow euthanasia, and four people chose to use it before the law was overturned by a Private Members Bill in the first Howard Government. It was a rare occasion where a private members bill was supported to conclusion.

So, in answer to your question, it's a topic that is 'in the news' in Australia, and probably deserves debate - Unless Stephen Conroy has his way - Websites discussing euthanasia are on his hit list for the internet filter.


S
I was def up for euthanasia the morning after that meet up with yer mob in Sydney in jan:(

Swerv-o Sep 21st 2010 11:19 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Bernie Barfly (Post 8866582)
I was def up for euthanasia the morning after that meet up with yer mob in Sydney in jan:(

Welcome to my life EVERY Friday morning :thumbup:


S

Bernieboy Sep 21st 2010 11:42 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Swerv-o (Post 8866631)
Welcome to my life EVERY Friday morning :thumbup:


S
You can keep it brother:eek:

willmore Sep 21st 2010 12:21 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Yes it should. Everyone should have the right to make the decision when to die....

renth Sep 21st 2010 12:55 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
No, because it would quickly turn into a situation where the elderly and sick were routinely encouraged to kill themselves by their family members with their eye on the inheritance.

scottishcelts Sep 21st 2010 12:56 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Definately not - however the terminally ill are a different subject altogether.

scottishcelts Sep 21st 2010 12:57 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by renth (Post 8866773)
No, because it would quickly turn into a situation where the elderly and sick were routinely encouraged to kill themselves by their family members with their eye on the inheritance.
:thumbup: agreed.

Bernieboy Sep 21st 2010 12:57 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by renth (Post 8866773)
No, because it would quickly turn into a situation where the elderly and sick were routinely encouraged to kill themselves by their family members with their eye on the inheritance.
Ssssscccchhhh spoilsport:sneaky:

asher Sep 21st 2010 4:23 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
No more training and knowledge of good palliative care obviates this! There is such a thing as a good death hospices have proved that!

Kim67 Sep 21st 2010 4:39 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by renth (Post 8866773)
No, because it would quickly turn into a situation where the elderly and sick were routinely encouraged to kill themselves by their family members with their eye on the inheritance.
That's the reason I voted no.

I've watched both parents die painful deaths with cancer. My mum's situation was particularly grim and she chose to die at home which meant our whole family pitching in for round the clock care. I was quite young (21) and one of my sisters had just lost her husband and had three small children. It was a very stressful time for everyone involved and nobody was thinking clearly, the choices we could have made then, were not the choices we would have made in hindsight. Fortunately the law was there to protect all of us from making a huge mistake that we would probably have regretted for the rest of our lives. We (my siblings and I) asked hospice staff if there was anything they could do to speed things up. They said that the amount of morphine they were administering was being increased daily and that it would quite quickly lead to death. If someone is capable of taking their own life then they're not usually sick enough to want to end it just yet, and if they need assistance, it's then no longer their decision to make.

scottishcelts Sep 21st 2010 4:45 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Kim67 (Post 8867084)
That's the reason I voted no.

I've watched both parents die painful deaths with cancer. My mum's situation was particularly grim and she chose to die at home which meant our whole family pitching in for round the clock care. I was quite young (21) and one of my sisters had just lost her husband and had three small children. It was a very stressful time for everyone involved and nobody was thinking clearly, the choices we could have made then, were not the choices we would have made in hindsight. Fortunately the law was there to protect all of us from making a huge mistake that we would probably have regretted for the rest of our lives. We (my siblings and I) asked hospice staff if there was anything they could do to speed things up. They said that the amount of morphine they were administering was being increased daily and that it would quite quickly lead to death. If someone is capable of taking their own life then they're not usually sick enough to want to end it just yet, and if they need assistance, it's then no longer their decision to make.
Indeed.

That must have been so awful for you all. :(

Geordie George Sep 21st 2010 4:49 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Kim67 (Post 8867084)
That's the reason I voted no.

I've watched both parents die painful deaths with cancer. My mum's situation was particularly grim and she chose to die at home which meant our whole family pitching in for round the clock care. I was quite young (21) and one of my sisters had just lost her husband and had three small children. It was a very stressful time for everyone involved and nobody was thinking clearly, the choices we could have made then, were not the choices we would have made in hindsight. Fortunately the law was there to protect all of us from making a huge mistake that we would probably have regretted for the rest of our lives. We (my siblings and I) asked hospice staff if there was anything they could do to speed things up. They said that the amount of morphine they were administering was being increased daily and that it would quite quickly lead to death. If someone is capable of taking their own life then they're not usually sick enough to want to end it just yet, and if they need assistance, it's then no longer their decision to make.
I don't follow that logic. Why should needing assistance mean denying someone the right to make their own decision? (Assuming, of course, that they are able to make a decision.) Just because the body fails, doesn't mean the mind has, too.

Pollyana Sep 21st 2010 4:50 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Kim67 (Post 8867084)
That's the reason I voted no.

I've watched both parents die painful deaths with cancer. My mum's situation was particularly grim and she chose to die at home which meant our whole family pitching in for round the clock care. I was quite young (21) and one of my sisters had just lost her husband and had three small children. It was a very stressful time for everyone involved and nobody was thinking clearly, the choices we could have made then, were not the choices we would have made in hindsight. Fortunately the law was there to protect all of us from making a huge mistake that we would probably have regretted for the rest of our lives. We (my siblings and I) asked hospice staff if there was anything they could do to speed things up. They said that the amount of morphine they were administering was being increased daily and that it would quite quickly lead to death. If someone is capable of taking their own life then they're not usually sick enough to want to end it just yet, and if they need assistance, it's then no longer their decision to make.
I agree it could lead to situations where people take the decision for the wrong reason. But if the person who is sick has already made their wishes known, in a Living Will or whatever, and has been quite clear for some time that they do not wish to live past the point where they can care for themselves (or whatever point they choose). then surely the Law should allow those wishes to be respected.
I wouldn't wish to continue living if I was dependent on someone else for everything, or if my mind had failed quicker than my body. I don't believe it would be fair either to me, or to those around me - I would prefer to be remembered as I was, and also prefer not to be a burden on anyone. In a situation like that surely there is a strong case for euthanasia?

spartacus Sep 21st 2010 4:50 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Kim67 (Post 8867084)
That's the reason I voted no.

I've watched both parents die painful deaths with cancer. My mum's situation was particularly grim and she chose to die at home which meant our whole family pitching in for round the clock care. I was quite young (21) and one of my sisters had just lost her husband and had three small children. It was a very stressful time for everyone involved and nobody was thinking clearly, the choices we could have made then, were not the choices we would have made in hindsight. Fortunately the law was there to protect all of us from making a huge mistake that we would probably have regretted for the rest of our lives. We (my siblings and I) asked hospice staff if there was anything they could do to speed things up. They said that the amount of morphine they were administering was being increased daily and that it would quite quickly lead to death. If someone is capable of taking their own life then they're not usually sick enough to want to end it just yet, and if they need assistance, it's then no longer their decision to make.
That's the crux of it really. My MIL passed away in similar circumstances fairly recently.

scottishcelts Sep 21st 2010 4:56 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 8867104)
I agree it could lead to situations where people take the decision for the wrong reason. But if the person who is sick has already made their wishes known, in a Living Will or whatever, and has been quite clear for some time that they do not wish to live past the point where they can care for themselves (or whatever point they choose). then surely the Law should allow those wishes to be respected.
I wouldn't wish to continue living if I was dependent on someone else for everything, or if my mind had failed quicker than my body. I don't believe it would be fair either to me, or to those around me - I would prefer to be remembered as I was, and also prefer not to be a burden on anyone. In a situation like that surely there is a strong case for euthanasia?
My OH said he is gonnae save up a concoction of dubious drugs to help aid him on his way, when the time comes! - and if he can't reach them himself, would I care to pass them over! :eek::unsure::blink:

I said it all depends really, on whether or not I've already done him in years before. :D

asher Sep 21st 2010 4:57 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Pollyana (Post 8867104)
I agree it could lead to situations where people take the decision for the wrong reason. But if the person who is sick has already made their wishes known, in a Living Will or whatever, and has been quite clear for some time that they do not wish to live past the point where they can care for themselves (or whatever point they choose). then surely the Law should allow those wishes to be respected.
I wouldn't wish to continue living if I was dependent on someone else for everything, or if my mind had failed quicker than my body. I don't believe it would be fair either to me, or to those around me - I would prefer to be remembered as I was, and also prefer not to be a burden on anyone. In a situation like that surely there is a strong case for euthanasia?
well thats what i always thought until i nursed a bloke with locked in syndrome who communicated with eye blinks and a spelled out alphabet, he told me he had thought the same way but that now that it was him life was precious even in his state and he was terrified that drs would allow him to die by not treating a pnuemonia or something like that it was quite a shock as all the medical staff were sure he wouldnt want to live like that!!

Kim67 Sep 21st 2010 5:10 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Geordie George (Post 8867103)
I don't follow that logic. Why should needing assistance mean denying someone the right to make their own decision? (Assuming, of course, that they are able to make a decision.) Just because the body fails, doesn't mean the mind has, too.
Because legalising euthanasia would mean that there would have to be laws for a million different scenarios (such as the one you mention) and more chance for grey areas within these laws. When you find out you or a member of your family is terminally ill, there are a number of stages of emotion and grief, the decisions you make during these times my change with each of these stages.

Geordie George Sep 21st 2010 5:22 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Kim67 (Post 8867141)
Because legalising euthanasia would mean that there would have to be laws for a million different scenarios (such as the one you mention) and more chance for grey areas within these laws. When you find out you or a member of your family is terminally ill, there are a number of stages of emotion and grief, the decisions you make during these times my change with each of these stages.
Agreed that there would probably be more grey areas; there is with lots of legislation. But I don't see that there would need to be laws for every possible different scenario.

My Mum died two and a half years ago of a brain tumour. I was seven months pregnant at the time. It didn't occur to me until many weeks after her death that the doctors did absolutely nothing to try and resuscitate her. She had gone into hospital with suspected epilepsy and was scanned and tested until the diagnosis was made. I forget what the medical name was (pregnancy brain strikes!), but her cancer was fast growing (possible that she'd only had the tumour about 6 weeks, we were told), very aggressive and like moss - no clear edges so surgery was not an option. Attempting it would have left her likely blind and paralysed. It was only after her death and rethinking over what had happened that I wondered about the lack of resuscitation. And then I realised that the doctors had made the call to allow her to die with some dignity, rather than bring her back to face what would have been a terminal diagnosis with absolute dependence on her family. I am grateful that the doctors did what they did - we were allowed to stand by her bedside and hold her hand while she died. They'd removed her heart rate monitor, so at least we didn't have to watch that flatline. Doctors are constantly making decisions about how people should die. I think that there should be more protection for them. Another family might have sued the hospital in our circumstances.

fish.01 Sep 24th 2010 12:43 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by Bernie Barfly (Post 8865210)
Having watched quite a few people young and old die in pain then im a YES:thumbup:
Interested in the difference between your response and asher's...given I believe you both work in healthcare? Is the pain relief good enough these days or is that just a best case thing which often isn't possible/done?

S E A N Sep 24th 2010 12:56 am
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
I think it is criminal that it isn't legal!

The government is actually torturing these people - forcing them to live their life in shocking agony, not being able to eat or go to the toilet and the worst forcing them to die without their dignity.

ABCDiamond Sep 24th 2010 3:17 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Euthanasia is already legal.... for dogs and cats, so that they do not suffer.

Why not for us ?

There must of course be restrictions, and I think every case must be ticked off by a judge or similar, to try to ensure no one is using it for inheritance purposes.

Also people should have to have this in a written living will, well before hand.

It isn't something that should be considered lightly.

But when my life becomes no longer of use, and only pain and suffering is foreseeable, then I would like the option, as is available in some other countries: Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland and various parts of the USA for example.

moneypenny20 Sep 24th 2010 7:38 pm
Re: Should "euthanasia" be legalized?
 
Originally Posted by ABCDiamond (Post 8874223)
Euthanasia is already legal.... for dogs and cats, so that they do not suffer.

Why not for us ?

There must of course be restrictions, and I think every case must be ticked off by a judge or similar, to try to ensure no one is using it for inheritance purposes.

Also people should have to have this in a written living will, well before hand.

It isn't something that should be considered lightly.

But when my life becomes no longer of use, and only pain and suffering is foreseeable, then I would like the option, as is available in some other countries: Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland and various parts of the USA for example.
Agreed.


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