Right or Wrong?
Jan 21st 2007, 8:05 pm
#46
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Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Portsmouth, uk
Posts: 379
Re: Right or Wrong?
...........The reason why this woman was so pissed off was because the cops wouldnt give her a lift!!! OK she did say she was in the wrong for speeding an having no rego, but the reason for her calling the radio station was to slag the cops off...................she actually expected a lift!!!
However, not everyone that falls foul of the law is some respect is trying to get a free ride. Some people really do make genuine mistakes.
Jan 21st 2007, 8:49 pm
#47
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Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Portsmouth, uk
Posts: 379
Re: Right or Wrong?
Actually I was giving an opinion. Something you're obviousoly not used to 
Fair enough. Do you do the same for a drunk [but innocent] young female in a city at midnight, where the chances of anything terrible happening are multiplied? Afterall, she hasn't broken the law. Or do you only play Taxi driver to those that have? What's wrong with suggesting to either party they get a Taxi?
Great, so you reward bad behaviour by deciding who's been nice to you and take them home? I deduct from this that you have time which means there are enough police on the ground to manage real crimes out there then
....
In that case manage them today in the manner that's warrented given they have done wrong, and tomorrow manage them in the way that warrents given they have done right. That's called managing people and situations according to circumstance and rewarding good behaviour, not bad
Agree. So work on respect and dignity, not the soft touch. Too often we send out a message that if you do wrong it is OK or societies fault or upbringing or whatever and these people get the kid glove treatment while the decent man/woman on the street are overlooked. If people see Police rewarding *bad* behaviour it sends out the wrong signals. Whatever happened here is not deemed a major crime in the eyes of the law but none the less it was a crime. Surely this should not be rewarded?.....
That's psychobabble. Strange that it's called the Police force then or has this terminology now been conveniently changed? Do you seriously beleive someone would consent to being aprehended? The Police seek the support of society to uphold the law however there are always those who don't conform hence societies rules being enforced where needs be by the Police. Hence Police force [as in forcing those who don't conform]. But thanks for the lesson anyway
Who mentioned treating this person as a hardened criminal? I think this is your emotional side surfacing again. Treat the person concerned with respect and dignity but don't promote bad behaviour by confiscating her car then offering a lift home in a Police vehicle. BTW...hypothetical question;what would happen if you had an accident on the way? [I'm thinking the ambulance/solicitor chasing society we live in today ] Would the Police be jeopordised in terms of liability in the event of an accident occuring and the passenger being seriously harmed if it was deemed Police liability? I can just see it now, pasenger claiming massive liability compensation due to police officer offering lift. Yep, small possibility but never the less a possibility and how much could that potentially cost the Tax payer
And you can do this by being respectful towards the general public whilst at the same time not condoning stupid behavior. Oh yes, that's right, you do that by personally deciding who's face fits...err....I mean by who behaves best.And I suppose that depends on whether the person has the nerve to ask for a lift.
Policeman or taxi driver?...from what you say it depends whether they have been naughty or really, really naughty?
I remember the Police force saying they didn't have enough constables on the street and they were stressed, under resourced and unable to cope with current workloads. Funny that they find the time to ferry people around who break the law then. I suppose even coppers want to be liked, rather than respected
Fair enough. Do you do the same for a drunk [but innocent] young female in a city at midnight, where the chances of anything terrible happening are multiplied? Afterall, she hasn't broken the law. Or do you only play Taxi driver to those that have? What's wrong with suggesting to either party they get a Taxi?
Great, so you reward bad behaviour by deciding who's been nice to you and take them home? I deduct from this that you have time which means there are enough police on the ground to manage real crimes out there then
.... In that case manage them today in the manner that's warrented given they have done wrong, and tomorrow manage them in the way that warrents given they have done right. That's called managing people and situations according to circumstance and rewarding good behaviour, not bad
Agree. So work on respect and dignity, not the soft touch. Too often we send out a message that if you do wrong it is OK or societies fault or upbringing or whatever and these people get the kid glove treatment while the decent man/woman on the street are overlooked. If people see Police rewarding *bad* behaviour it sends out the wrong signals. Whatever happened here is not deemed a major crime in the eyes of the law but none the less it was a crime. Surely this should not be rewarded?.....
That's psychobabble. Strange that it's called the Police force then or has this terminology now been conveniently changed? Do you seriously beleive someone would consent to being aprehended? The Police seek the support of society to uphold the law however there are always those who don't conform hence societies rules being enforced where needs be by the Police. Hence Police force [as in forcing those who don't conform]. But thanks for the lesson anyway
Who mentioned treating this person as a hardened criminal? I think this is your emotional side surfacing again. Treat the person concerned with respect and dignity but don't promote bad behaviour by confiscating her car then offering a lift home in a Police vehicle. BTW...hypothetical question;what would happen if you had an accident on the way? [I'm thinking the ambulance/solicitor chasing society we live in today ] Would the Police be jeopordised in terms of liability in the event of an accident occuring and the passenger being seriously harmed if it was deemed Police liability? I can just see it now, pasenger claiming massive liability compensation due to police officer offering lift. Yep, small possibility but never the less a possibility and how much could that potentially cost the Tax payer
And you can do this by being respectful towards the general public whilst at the same time not condoning stupid behavior. Oh yes, that's right, you do that by personally deciding who's face fits...err....I mean by who behaves best.And I suppose that depends on whether the person has the nerve to ask for a lift.
Policeman or taxi driver?...from what you say it depends whether they have been naughty or really, really naughty?
I remember the Police force saying they didn't have enough constables on the street and they were stressed, under resourced and unable to cope with current workloads. Funny that they find the time to ferry people around who break the law then. I suppose even coppers want to be liked, rather than respected
point 2) I have taken drunk people home before, yes. You see we have a lawful duty of care to people and we are duty bound not to place them in danger or to leave them in danger. If I see a very drunk lone person (male or female) I am duty bound to help them.
point 3) You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said - are you a politician!!?? My point is that if a decent person makes a mistake then the legal punishment is sufficient and I don't need to add to that by being an officious nob head! If this person was expecting a lift or was a criminal then stuff 'em but if she was genuinely in need of a lift then I would give her one.
point 4) Condescension is easy and does not add a pursuasive edge to your case. You must know that it is not as simple as that, surely?
What you may not know is that the police are damned if they do and damned if they dont. The likelihood is that a genuine criminal would not expect a lift - they may ask but they wouldn't grumble when told to shove off.
A middle class, generally law abiding citizen is different.
Its amazing that the entirety of society whinges about the police being too soft and yet when it is them on the receiving end of a "jobs worth" copper they can't get to the complaints line quick enough!!!
point 5) Its not psychobabble at all. There is no Police Force in the UK. We have constabularies and a Metropolitan Police Service.
Police Force is an Americanism.
point 6) As long as you are acting lawfully in your duty there would be no problem in the event of an accident. It would not cost the taxpayer a penny as officers are insured for driving.
point 7) Its not a case of who's face fits at all. Its a case of assessing the person's attitude to life in general. For example, I stopped a driver the other day for speeding. His attitude was that it was OK to speed as it didn't matter. He laughed when I explained that his extra 10 MPH could kill someone so he got a ticket where another person may not have done.
The same applies in this case as I have previously explained.
This is how I police. I am hard on criminals and those that make other people's
lives a misery. I am reasonable with people who are deserving of reason.
point 8) Again, condescension, but still, taxi driving is occasionally a part of our job!! How about youths that have just committed some horrible crime and been released from custody but have no way to get home (parents won't come, etc.)? What do we do? We take them home, more often than not. This is because we have that duty of care again.
point 9) there are enough constables, its just that they are overburdened with rubbish (see below for an opportunity to learn the truth). Again, the point I made was that I would give a lift within reason if it wasn't going to occupy me for long, take me away from something more pressing or take me away from my patrol area.
At the end of the day the woman was hit pretty hard - she had her car taken off her! She was hardly being sent a soft message even if she got a lift.
This is the way I police. I am very effective at my job and do not waste my money (I pay far more taxes than the vast majority of the people I deal with!!!!). I catch a lot of prisoners and have recently received a commendation for bravery. I have caught numerous rapists, hundreds of druggies, a whole clutch of burglars (including 2 caught in the act), hundreds of car thieves, vandals, recidivist violent offenders, etc. etc. and I know very well how to do my job.
What you have to also appreciate is that it is difficult for me to get as angry about an offender such as this as you can. This comes from being exposed to serious crimes and criminals for a number of years.
I'm not saying I'm jaded as I'm not but once you've seen the things I have seen it is difficult to become as angry about this sort of crime. Before I joined the job I would have agreed with you, I'm sure.
If you would like to know what REALLY wastes our time and eats into our budgets and time I would highly recommend you read the book "Wasting Police Time" by PC David Copperfield. Given your vehement feelings on this subject I think you would genuinely enjoy this book and would be very much shocked by its content. It is 100% accurate and sums up policing today in England and Wales. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!!
Jan 21st 2007, 11:55 pm
#48
Master of verbal pish©
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 22,198
Re: Right or Wrong?
drunk in public......how do you get home? its a mental charge
Jan 22nd 2007, 8:23 am
#53
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,997
Re: Right or Wrong?
Ok, point 1) I may have deserved some sarcasm after my own but please!!!
point 2) I have taken drunk people home before, yes. You see we have a lawful duty of care to people and we are duty bound not to place them in danger or to leave them in danger. If I see a very drunk lone person (male or female) I am duty bound to help them.
point 3) You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said - are you a politician!!?? My point is that if a decent person makes a mistake then the legal punishment is sufficient and I don't need to add to that by being an officious nob head! If this person was expecting a lift or was a criminal then stuff 'em but if she was genuinely in need of a lift then I would give her one.
point 4) Condescension is easy and does not add a pursuasive edge to your case. You must know that it is not as simple as that, surely?
What you may not know is that the police are damned if they do and damned if they dont. The likelihood is that a genuine criminal would not expect a lift - they may ask but they wouldn't grumble when told to shove off.
A middle class, generally law abiding citizen is different.
Its amazing that the entirety of society whinges about the police being too soft and yet when it is them on the receiving end of a "jobs worth" copper they can't get to the complaints line quick enough!!!
point 5) Its not psychobabble at all. There is no Police Force in the UK. We have constabularies and a Metropolitan Police Service.
Police Force is an Americanism.
point 6) As long as you are acting lawfully in your duty there would be no problem in the event of an accident. It would not cost the taxpayer a penny as officers are insured for driving.
point 7) Its not a case of who's face fits at all. Its a case of assessing the person's attitude to life in general. For example, I stopped a driver the other day for speeding. His attitude was that it was OK to speed as it didn't matter. He laughed when I explained that his extra 10 MPH could kill someone so he got a ticket where another person may not have done.
The same applies in this case as I have previously explained.
This is how I police. I am hard on criminals and those that make other people's
lives a misery. I am reasonable with people who are deserving of reason.
point 8) Again, condescension, but still, taxi driving is occasionally a part of our job!! How about youths that have just committed some horrible crime and been released from custody but have no way to get home (parents won't come, etc.)? What do we do? We take them home, more often than not. This is because we have that duty of care again.
point 9) there are enough constables, its just that they are overburdened with rubbish (see below for an opportunity to learn the truth). Again, the point I made was that I would give a lift within reason if it wasn't going to occupy me for long, take me away from something more pressing or take me away from my patrol area.
At the end of the day the woman was hit pretty hard - she had her car taken off her! She was hardly being sent a soft message even if she got a lift.
This is the way I police. I am very effective at my job and do not waste my money (I pay far more taxes than the vast majority of the people I deal with!!!!). I catch a lot of prisoners and have recently received a commendation for bravery. I have caught numerous rapists, hundreds of druggies, a whole clutch of burglars (including 2 caught in the act), hundreds of car thieves, vandals, recidivist violent offenders, etc. etc. and I know very well how to do my job.
What you have to also appreciate is that it is difficult for me to get as angry about an offender such as this as you can. This comes from being exposed to serious crimes and criminals for a number of years.
I'm not saying I'm jaded as I'm not but once you've seen the things I have seen it is difficult to become as angry about this sort of crime. Before I joined the job I would have agreed with you, I'm sure.
If you would like to know what REALLY wastes our time and eats into our budgets and time I would highly recommend you read the book "Wasting Police Time" by PC David Copperfield. Given your vehement feelings on this subject I think you would genuinely enjoy this book and would be very much shocked by its content. It is 100% accurate and sums up policing today in England and Wales. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!!
point 2) I have taken drunk people home before, yes. You see we have a lawful duty of care to people and we are duty bound not to place them in danger or to leave them in danger. If I see a very drunk lone person (male or female) I am duty bound to help them.
point 3) You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said - are you a politician!!?? My point is that if a decent person makes a mistake then the legal punishment is sufficient and I don't need to add to that by being an officious nob head! If this person was expecting a lift or was a criminal then stuff 'em but if she was genuinely in need of a lift then I would give her one.
point 4) Condescension is easy and does not add a pursuasive edge to your case. You must know that it is not as simple as that, surely?
What you may not know is that the police are damned if they do and damned if they dont. The likelihood is that a genuine criminal would not expect a lift - they may ask but they wouldn't grumble when told to shove off.
A middle class, generally law abiding citizen is different.
Its amazing that the entirety of society whinges about the police being too soft and yet when it is them on the receiving end of a "jobs worth" copper they can't get to the complaints line quick enough!!!
point 5) Its not psychobabble at all. There is no Police Force in the UK. We have constabularies and a Metropolitan Police Service.
Police Force is an Americanism.
point 6) As long as you are acting lawfully in your duty there would be no problem in the event of an accident. It would not cost the taxpayer a penny as officers are insured for driving.
point 7) Its not a case of who's face fits at all. Its a case of assessing the person's attitude to life in general. For example, I stopped a driver the other day for speeding. His attitude was that it was OK to speed as it didn't matter. He laughed when I explained that his extra 10 MPH could kill someone so he got a ticket where another person may not have done.
The same applies in this case as I have previously explained.
This is how I police. I am hard on criminals and those that make other people's
lives a misery. I am reasonable with people who are deserving of reason.
point 8) Again, condescension, but still, taxi driving is occasionally a part of our job!! How about youths that have just committed some horrible crime and been released from custody but have no way to get home (parents won't come, etc.)? What do we do? We take them home, more often than not. This is because we have that duty of care again.
point 9) there are enough constables, its just that they are overburdened with rubbish (see below for an opportunity to learn the truth). Again, the point I made was that I would give a lift within reason if it wasn't going to occupy me for long, take me away from something more pressing or take me away from my patrol area.
At the end of the day the woman was hit pretty hard - she had her car taken off her! She was hardly being sent a soft message even if she got a lift.
This is the way I police. I am very effective at my job and do not waste my money (I pay far more taxes than the vast majority of the people I deal with!!!!). I catch a lot of prisoners and have recently received a commendation for bravery. I have caught numerous rapists, hundreds of druggies, a whole clutch of burglars (including 2 caught in the act), hundreds of car thieves, vandals, recidivist violent offenders, etc. etc. and I know very well how to do my job.
What you have to also appreciate is that it is difficult for me to get as angry about an offender such as this as you can. This comes from being exposed to serious crimes and criminals for a number of years.
I'm not saying I'm jaded as I'm not but once you've seen the things I have seen it is difficult to become as angry about this sort of crime. Before I joined the job I would have agreed with you, I'm sure.
If you would like to know what REALLY wastes our time and eats into our budgets and time I would highly recommend you read the book "Wasting Police Time" by PC David Copperfield. Given your vehement feelings on this subject I think you would genuinely enjoy this book and would be very much shocked by its content. It is 100% accurate and sums up policing today in England and Wales. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!!
Some good answers there, but today I aint got the time to respond in detail and you've got criminals to catch
...so lets shake hands and agree to disagree
BTW...a few of our mates in UK are coppers with one in CID so I know what's involved, warts and all. And would you believe it...our neighbor is an Aussie Police Sargent
Anyways, I agree with Soapy..you sound like a nice guy. Not so sure about your management skills though
Please god tell me you're coming here to retire
Take care pet...and good luck with the visa!
]
Jan 22nd 2007, 4:44 pm
#57
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Portsmouth, uk
Posts: 379
Re: Right or Wrong?
Not sure about the retiring thing - I'm only 27!!!
Agree to disagree? Why the heck not!!!
Just sent a rogue down today for driving without insurance - £260 fine and disqualified! Hoorah!!
Agree to disagree? Why the heck not!!!
Just sent a rogue down today for driving without insurance - £260 fine and disqualified! Hoorah!!
Jan 22nd 2007, 4:46 pm
#58
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Portsmouth, uk
Posts: 379
Re: Right or Wrong?
(this smiley looks a bit like me with the big grin!!)