Trekrider

We saw a solicitor here about a mortgage debt in the UK and he advised us that we could only be taken to court in Australia if we had already been taken to court in the UK and lost. He also made the point that, depending on how much you owed, it probably wasn't worth them doing that. The other point he made was that, just because you lost in the UK didn't automatically mean that you would lose here.

alan_blue

hmmmm so as i was saying it is not quite as clear cut and easy as some people think. The only real safe way is to repay your debt and live a happy life!!

granada

You mention a UK mortgage debt but a credit card debt is different kettle of fish altogether as it`s unsecured.

Rossi

Lots of good info & links to relevant UK and Aus law on here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...australia.html

perksy

An interesting read. Also reiterates my point, if you don't want to pay a UK consumer debt theres little that any DCA can do to make you.

lapin_windstar

Predictably, I have to disagree, having read the whole painful six pages. It's an echo chamber of people telling each other things they want to believe - "they know you live in Oz so they cannot get a CCJ because a CCJ can only be registered at your UK address", "Don't think that they can get a judgement if you live abroad", "They CANNOT get a CCJ in England as you are no longer resident in England" - without any sourcing or substantiation for those claims. It's full of unsourced cut & paste from elsewhere on the internet.

The only two references given are to McGuffick v RBS, which (having read it in a little but not great depth) appears to have bugger all to do with enforceability of consumer credit overseas, and a puff piece by some lawyers that specifically discuss significant exceptions to the "rule" which the poster claims is being proved! Their interpretation of the Data Protection Act is woefully lacking, for the reasons already given in this thread.

It reiterates your point, in the sense of repeats it over and over and over again, but it doesn't do much to prove or substantiate it. Sorry.

PS is "if you don't want to pay a UK consumer debt there's little that any DCA can do" an edging away from "a consumer debt like the one you had is unenforceable outside the UK"?

perksy

An overview of the form N1 which is county courts claim form for issuing a CCJ


Form N1 - Claim form for debt recovery - Use this document to make an application to county court to recover money owed to you through unpaid invoices. Before making this application, you must have already sent at least two letters to the customer demanding payment of the invoices and threatening to take the matter to court if the invoices are not paid. If you have not done this already, use our 'Debt collection letters for unpaid invoices' document. Please note that this document is only suitable for recovering sums from up to two defendants and can only be used in England & Wales. There is no limit, however, on the amount that can be claimed.


http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dtl/i...roductid=2287#

lapin_windstar

<facepalm>

That website does not say that consumer debt can't be enforced against people outside England & Wales or anything like it. All it says it that you can only use their online service to claim debts from 1 or 2 defendants who are in England & Wales. Do you see the difference? Would you also, on that basis of that link, be suggesting that it is impossible for more than two people to be sued over a debt or that it's impossible for people outside E&W to be sued for debt in English courts? I think not because that would obviously be nonsense. I suspect that your last link was to a commercial website which is really just another front end for the bulk facility in Northampton which we previously disposed of.

This is a pattern all the way through this thread and the other thread you linked to: a lot of claims, a lot of mutual reinforcement and then links to documents which have some of the key words that seem impressive but actually do not say what the referrer thinks or claims that they say.

perksy

Perhaps you need to go back to law school and concentrate harder on your studies. I would not be happy if you were representing me. You clearly don't know the UK Consumer Credit Act 1974 and are just clutching at straws to pick a hole in the argument.

Subsection 141 of the UK Consumer Credit Act 1974
— (1) In England and Wales the county court shall have jurisdiction to hear and determine—
(a)any action by the creditor or owner to enforce a regulated agreement or any security relating to it;
(b)any action to enforce any linked transaction against the debtor or hirer or his relative,
and such an action shall not be brought in any other court.
(2) Where an action or application is brought in the High Court which, by virtue of this Act, ought to have been brought in the county court it shall not be treated as improperly brought, but shall be transferred to the county court.
[F1 (3) In Scotland the sheriff court shall have jurisdiction to hear and determine any action referred to in subsection (1) and such an action shall not be brought in any other court.
(3A) Subject to subsection (3B) an action which is brought in the sheriff court by virtue of subsection (3) shall be brought only in one of the following courts, namely—
(a)the court for the place where the debtor or hirer is domiciled (within the meaning of section 41 or 42 of the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982);
(b)the court for the place where the debtor or hirer carries on business; and
(c)where the purpose of the action is to assert, declare or determine proprietary or possessory rights, or rights of security, in or over moveable property, or to obtain authority to dispose of moveable property, the court for the place where the property is situated.
(3B) Subsection (3A) shall not apply—
(a)where Rule 3 of Schedule 8 to the said Act of 1982 applies; or
(b)where the jurisdiction of another court has been prorogated by an agreement entered into after the dispute has arisen.]


http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content...&filesize=6804

lapin_windstar

You're right, I don't, at all. You're the one professing expertise in it and making claims about what it says and how it affects debtors in Australia. And yet once again, you're posting a link to something that doesn't support what you've said.

In the nicest possible way...that part of the legislation doesn't do anything to support your claim that UK consumer debt isn't enforceable in Australia (and that's leaving aside the other types of debt discussed on this thread for a moment). It says that in E&W, consumer credit actions may be only brought in the County Court. That's it. It does not demonstrate that the County Court won't hear cases against defendants located outside E&W. It does not say that a Consumer Credit suit can't be transferred to another court ("brought" is not "heard", "jurisdiction" is not "exclusive jurisdiction"). It does not demonstrate that judgements obtained in UK courts aren't enforceable outside the UK. It does not demonstrate a dead end for enforcement if a judgement is obtained. It does not demonstrate that transferring sensitive personal data around a debt outside the EU is a violation of the DPA. It does not substantiate or prove any of the things you've said at all. Do you even read these things before you post them?

I'm not sure this charade is worth bothering with any more - there's got to be a point at which you just decide that someone just can't come up with the goods. I think for me, this is that point. Sorry.

Like I said earlier, Cheerio!

iamthecreaturefromuranus

Thank fook for that. !!

Can everybody leave this thread alone now... it must rank as one of the most boring in a long time.... all these "I plan to defraud some company in the UK by legging it and leaving a load of debt" threads are all the same.

rinkerdink

Crikey,

This reminds me of when an agent comes on and blows a load of well intentioned but amatuer advice out of the water.

This is why I hired an agent and also why I would hire a legal professional to discuss all matters of debt and their recovery via courts, DCA etc.

Unfortunately it's not always the case but you usually get what you pay for and if you pay nothing you tend to get air (this is free) or at least very little substance.

Good Luck all, I know there are hard luck cases but I suspect far more irresponsibility regarding landing yourself in debt, I know myself and realise I would always be worried about the debt and concerned about my moral obligations, these mean more to some than others.

On another note I have found some of the language on here very biased, all the talk of the faceless blood sucking organisations (ok exaggerating slightly) smacks of desperation to offload some morals and normally is not the case I'm sure, If I did some work and payment was refused without good reason I would take umbrage at being labelled a leech for expecting what was rightfully mine, am I alone...

alan_blue

this is a very useful thread actually as it provides different sides of a point. This also allows our readers the chance to make thier own decisions and is purely here to look after our expats. I can see that over the past few days there still is no information relating to debts outside of the U.K as lapin is stating. I do see what perksy is saying, however there still is no black and white references to debt outside of the U.K is there.

In light of this I would advise anyone who is not going to repay thier debts to edge on the side of caution and seek qualified legal advice.

Cheers

iamthecreaturefromuranus

Or perhaps, horror of horrors, PAY THEM.

livinginreality

Totally agree with that!If you're "responsible"enough to take out credit cards or other loans then atleast have the responsibility to repay the damn things!