granada

The thing that`s really bulls**t is the bank bailouts and the debt that the UK Govt has taken on for the country. The next few generations will still be saddled with this mess.

Not everyone who ends up in debt has done so because of reckless spending on credit cards. Some people are genuinely a victim of circumstances.

The big banks haven't had to take any responibilty for their debts - they just shifted it to the taxpayers. What`s good for the goose is good for the gander.

alan_blue

i do appreciate that some cant help the situation they are placed in when it is uncontrollable, however not all in these situations and some choose to simply f%$k off the loans dont they.

There are lots of references to this 6 year thing and the fact that debt collections cannot be chased here in oz, does anyone have any official references to this information or is this a rule of thumb?

I find it hard to believe that it is that easy that is all

cheers
al

kar-kier

Perksy's mrs used to work for a DCA, so she knows the legalities; he has been good enough to share his knowledge with all of us on here!

alan_blue

that is a good source, however im sure we would all like to find out where this info is in case the poo hits the fan, as im sure "i read it on a forum" would not hold any merit.

kind regards

canadaeh

The Consumer Credit Code and Law in each country is a good place to start.

It really is as easy as it sounds.

kar-kier

Lol, fair point!

perksy

To legally enforce payment of a consumer debt in England and Wales the creditor must present the case before a court in order to obtain a CCJ. In order for the CCJ to be valid, notification must be presented to the debtor at their address in England or Wales.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/o...mant/can_i.htm


The relavent info is on page 3 of the document but basically says "your claim must be for a fixed amount of money which is less than £100,000 including court fees and any solicitors' costs';
your claim is against no more than two people;
your address for service must be within England and Wales"


The laws for Scotland are different.


So therefore a CCJ cannot be valid if you don't have an address in England or Wales. A consumer debt taken out under the UK Consumer Credit Act is precisely that. A UK Act, and isn't applicable anywhere else other than the UK. The debt and details of it are also binded by the UK Data Protection Act 1998 which states "8. Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data."

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content...tDocId=3190610

EDIT: Just to add any UK based DCA forwarding details of unpaid UK consumer debt to DCA's outside of the EU are breaking the Data Protection Act. That won't stop them though since they know many debtors dont know the law or their rights, and will generally panic and pay up once the letters and phonecalls start.

alan_blue

cheers mate that is good work. I do still have a uk address as my statements ect all go to the in laws, so i am unable to halt my payments as they will hound the address right?

NELBHOY

Try "I read it on a forum m'lord". That might work

lapin_windstar

Perksy: With respect, I'm not entirely sure that a lot of what you're saying is actually supported by the links that you give.

It might well be that Consumer Debt in E&W isn't enforceable in Australia or elsewhere, but it's not on the basis of the information you provide, as far as I can see.
A CCJ is made after the claim form and response pack is served on the debtor/defendant, and if the court decides to make a judgment in the creditor's favour. It's the service (i.e. before the judgment), not the notification of the CCJ (after the judgment) that is relevant to the address issue. Notification of the CCJ after any judgment isn't discussed on the link you provide.

The link isn't saying that only defendants located in England and Wales can be sued in County Courts; it's saying that you can only use Money Claim OnLine to sue 1 or 2 people with a E&W address and for less than 100 grand. The condition after the one you posted is "you have a valid credit or debit card" - but your conclusion from reading that wouldn't be that only people who have a credit card are allowed to sue, would it? You can still sue 3 or more people for more than 100 grand if you don't have a credit card etc, you just have to go and file the claim in person, on paper.

As I understand it and I'm more than willing to be corrected, people located outside the UK can be sued in E&W County Courts. Unfortunately, I can't C&P all of the relevant section but if you go to Google Books here and look at the bottom of p185, the relevant section is "Non-European defendants": http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...ngland&f=false

"The presence of the defendant within England and Wales is the primary determinant of jurisdiction ...[BUT]...the rules allow the English court to assume jurisdiction where the subject matter to the claim has a real connection to England (e.g. a harmful act was committed or damage was suffered within the jurisdiction or a contract contains an agreement that an English court will have jurisdiction)".

This is not necessarily true. The Eighth Principle of the DPA to which you refer is a general principle and is qualified by Schedule 4 later on: "Cases where the eighth principle does not apply".

Two relevant parts of Schedule 4 for when the general prohibition doesn't apply are:

"5. The transfer—
(a) is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings),
(b) is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or
(c) is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights."

"8. The transfer is made on terms which are of a kind approved by the Commissioner as ensuring adequate safeguards for the rights and freedoms of data subjects."

#5 would obviously cover debt collection and #8 includes "safe harbour" type agreements between companies which in essence say "we, the non-EU company promise to treat the data as if we were bound by the rules of the DPA and we won't do anything nasty with it". If this mechanism didn't exist, it would be illegal for, for instance, BT to send customers' data from the UK to call centres in India (or wherever) and for my old company's London office to send personal data to its New York office.

If the debtor's data were being passed from a UK creditor to an Aussie debt collector to protect a legal right or where a data protection agreement had already been signed between the creditor and collector, then there would be no problem...under the Data Protection Act, at least.

perksy

This link may be more clearer regarding the laws of issuing a CCJ.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/top...e#encyclopedia

Limitations
Rule 7 allows for limits to be placed on the types of claim that may be issued via the CCBC.

These are currently:


The claim must be for issue in the County Court and not the High Court;
The Claim Form cannot refer to separate Particulars of Claim;
The claim must be for a specified sum of money less that £100,000 sterling, and expressed in sterling;
The claim cannot be against more than two Defendants;
Where there are two Defendants the claim against each of them must be for the same amount;
The Defendant(s) must not be a child or patient (within the meaning of Rule 21 of the Civil Procedure Rules) or a legally assisted person (within the meaning of the Legal Aid Act 1988);
The Defendant cannot be the Crown;
The Defendant(s) address for service must be within England or Wales.

formula

You can't rely on time to get you out of your debt if you obtained the money by fraud.

Therefore, anyone who made any false claims on their application form, will find that the debt is not statute barred. They can keep chasing you for the money you owe them.

sr71

If you just we them money then they are a creditor just like anyone else and you can't be arrested.

lapin_windstar

Sorry - that doesn't support your interpretation of the law either. That just talks about the rules for filing claims with the county court through a facility that allows creditors to file a large number of claims simultaneously i.e. instead of Barclaycard having to type out/file hundreds of separate claims every month, they can just do all of them in one big shot. It doesn't say anything about claims filed under the traditional system.

Moreover, afaics originating process can be served outside E&W - whether the creditor needs the court's permission or not depends on what country the defendant is located in. So why wouldn't that apply to consumer debt? There may well be a perfectly good reason - but it hasn't been reliably stated on this thread so far, as far as I can see.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...pd_part06b.htm

Fiona&malc

would the uk debt company be able to go straight to an australian court and claim under australain jurisdiction? ive heard of that happening and threats to 'pind' property here in aus?