Beoz

Must be an election coming up. Either Labor or Liberal were going to adopt this as a vote winner. The majority of the population is dumb. They don't get a seat on a train or get stuck in a traffic jam - that's over population. Not really the case. It means more trains needed or build a tunnel under that intersection.

Morrison knows it's a vote winner. Stick it in for a year then go back. After all, still a big skills shortage in Melb and Syd.

This is a much better article. It's the ABC so they listen to Labor. Argument is kind of correct for once. However it's not really an argument - it's just winning the vote of the dumb.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/federal-government-scott-morrison-migration-cuts/10513256?pfmredir=sm

the troubadour

Don't know why you bother to challenge me. You are proved wrong most every time. Just the most simplistic research will show you slavery remains widespread, with this industry in the hands of gangs and a BBC report, showed little had changed ten years after.
No not 21. It was 23, actually. Only 21 bodies were at first retrieved. In 04, hundreds of illegals were being paid 'slave' wages to undertake this sort of dangerous work.
I'd say 23 deaths is rather numerous. Obviously, a little imagination, would have brought the word clam to light. Perhaps you remain in ignorance, as to the meaning of that term as well?

the troubadour

So the will of the people should not be taken into consideration. There are not shortages, that a return to normal migration rates would not prove sufficient. But certainly a fear that the property market will implode and government coffers will lighten considerably.
The people are fed up with falling living standards. It is evident to most everybody that both Sydney and Melbourne are full. I'm afraid your own narrow preference for turbo population out of self interest, is not of interest to the majority of Sydneysiders.
ABC and SBS both pretty much supporting the Big Australia push. Hardly a non biased platform ...

Amazulu

I was in Japan a few months ago - the 3rd time I've been there - a deeply impressive country. I love the place, my favourite Asian country

Japan has little permanent immigration yet functions perfectly well. All menial work is done by Japanese people and the elderly are highly visible in the workforce. The use of technology is rampant

Japan - getting shit done

I tend to think that some level of migration is a good thing but should be limited to the highly skilled and generally reflect the host country's culture, heritage, religion and values. Migration from the 3rd world is fine but should be restricted to limited numbers

Whether some like it or not, and rightly or wrongly, migration into the west is going to be scaled back going forward - the consequences could be dire if it is not and host populations (aka voters) are going to demand that it is

Beoz

Shortages everywhere on the East Coast. Can't speak for Perth, you obviously can and have done, but as I remind you time and time again, Perth is not Australia, just a very small piece of it.

Most importantly the government coffers with light considerably, and that is a big problem for each and every person living in Australia. You bang on about cutting services and the like.

Well just you wait. Morrison says to the dumb people "You spoke and we are listening.........". Perhaps after the election, if still in power he may finish that statement with "You spoke and we are listening, we cut immigration, we cut it from skilled migration because the dumb people can relate to outsiders taking their jobs, however, what we didn't tell you was those skilled migrants account for a lot of direct and indirect tax dollars. We have taken a hit, and in return we have to hit services - that's the way it works. Money in money out"

Do you class falling living standards as a seat on a bus or having a job to go to each day? Without a job their is no bus to catch. Its much easier to add more buses than it is to find jobs for millions.

However this all comes back to your housing issue. Still can't get on the property ladder right? And what says cutting immigration will solve your personal issues? Less people means less construction, which less housing means you pay more. Simple economics. You are using your own personal struggle to justify massive effects on the wider economy.

What the NSW libs are saying is pretty simple. They are asking for a forum where the states a feds get together and thrash out the pro's and con's of the right type of immigration. When its decided that skilled immigration has more pro's than con's to the wider economy then the discussion will turn to other topics like "how do we get migrants to live in places other than Sydney or Melbourne" OR "how is the federal government going to assist in providing the infrastructure to those areas where population is growing the most."

Sydney is fine on the infrastructure front. As Gladys says, "years of neglect by Labor means we are playing catch up" but its coming thick and fast.

Melbourne worries me. There is one major public transport project on the go at the moment in the Metro Project, then lots of less glamorous yet important like Level Crossing Removals. There is discussion about an airport train and a circular rail line however these are in the pipe dream.

The Libs are playing an interesting hand here. Of course they want immigration to continue but at the same time they are hearing the voices from those who don't look deeper than a crowded bus. It could be an election winner if they get the crowded bus mob. (see Brexit, see Trump)

the troubadour

Japan remains one of the top economic powers. Even after decades of at best, mixed economic performance. A good example of deflationary pressures within the housing market as well. A lot A big difference with Australia being, the latter is a settler country, always has been, looks always will be. Population growth covering a lot of inadequacies within the economy of course.

Japan, though ageing rapidly, is a small land. It has always been homogeneous. Indeed, I have heard, in the past, Japanese refer to themselves as well Japanese, and neighbours as Asians, something rather different and not really akin.

Australia would not be able in present times, to operate a policy of selection of migration, based on race. Those days are long gone. The issue should not be around race, a no win situation there , for any that hark back to days of old, but a numbers game. How many can Australia comfortably hold and over what time frame.
Why should a big population nation prove to be more successful than a smaller populated nation, that can disperse wealth more readily among its inhabitants?
.

the troubadour

Excess capacity reached. Already mentioned in another thread, ABS figures released Feb 18, Participation, Job Search and Mobility Australia clearly show some 9% of the work force are underemployed (way in excess of 1 million)

Only reason for excess migration, contrary to needs, are to stagnate wages, invoke greater competition/fear for employees, attempt to defer falling house prices, bring money into government coffers, make economy appear better than really is.
All above are leading to ever falling living standards with turbo population growth into two cities, impacting on every avenue of life, from schools to hospitals, from public transport to roads .More people will not deliver better services when already at straining point. It adds to the cost.

No the concern is about winning the upcoming election, nothing at all with the concerns of everyday people and falling standards. Attempts to keep the population turbo increases 'under wraps' by a largely compliant media, (for obvious reasons) has failed. It took a considerable time, but hard to hide something, so evident to so many people.
Right wing popular politics will not be kind to turbo charged immigration, as Trump sells to his devotes or Brexit used as a large part of its campaign. No idea why you think those factors would further your stance on destructive overwhelming immigration numbers.

Beoz

And to compensate the ageing population and shrinking economy what has Japan turned to - immigration and raising taxes

Once a taboo subject in Japan, immigration is now seen as the only way out of the shrink.

Eventually they will accept increasing immigration to avoid higher taxation. Slowly does it though.

Beoz

Already discussed. Many choose to be under employed or work part time. Already discussed. The method of measuring underemployment is from the 70's and has been exposed as an incorrect measure for 50 years later. Roll with the times, not incorrect information measured by women being chained to the kitchen sink from the 70's.

You need to actually be on the ground on the east coast to understand that. Arm chair google searching won't help you and your cause.

are to stagnate wages - by product of inflation. No inflation no wage increase, wage increase = inflation - neutral effect on everyone
invoke greater competition for employees - bring it on
attempt to defer falling house prices - Good. There are good reasons to slow the rate of growth but every reason in the world to prevent decline. For starters, one of the biggest employers, construction, relies on continued growth. Take that away and its armageddon for a whole host of reasons - do these need spelling out to you or are you still only interested in yourself?
bring money into government coffers - I would be very interested to hear why a wealthy government that's spending money on the people is a bad thing.
make economy appear better than really is - The economy condition is a very factual set of numbers produced by many different sources. You can hardly get away with lying about its condition.

The above is just nonsense. You know it.

Really ...... you want better services? The below list might help.

invoke greater competition for employees
defer falling house prices
bring money into government coffers

You are promoting decline. Why?

Its a fact that the right type of immigration improves living standards which is why our living standards have been improving since the 90's. Maybe yours aren't but that's your problem to solve.

Beoz

BTW I talk about the right type of immigration.

Lets clarify what that is.

The right type of immigration is choosing skilled immigrants who are living in countries with a similar living standard to Australia who possess skills and experience that cannot be found locally. To be honest, the general skill level of Australians is pretty poor and unproductive.

Its not about importing a bunch of Indians who may have qualifications up there arm but no experience of applying those skills in a developed country and who would accept a far lower living standard because they are used to it and they will do anything to get a foot in the door. That does not do the wider economy any favours nor does it bring in the required skills to advance Australia locally.

Sadly we have gone too far the other way in recent times. It is now too hard to employ those from developed countries who have bags of experience who would be a great asset to Australia.

the troubadour

Says something when only low waged,(in own country) limited educated, (refer to trade related workers) Brit's, are among the few within the European area, showing much interest in moving to Australia. But a definite bias does play a part as well in better qualified,Germans, Swiss, Danes, Dutch , French and the rest from Europe, apart perhaps some of the younger, whom have ben unable to get on the ladder in their home country, thus willing to do most anything . I am aware of many that have returned over ten years with no interest in remaining. Many from former Yugoslavia, have returned to Europe as well. Not always to own country, but another European one, Germany being popular for those that manage.
Far easier these days to entice Indian and Nepalese and Pakistani immigrants, whom are on paper well qualified and willing to work under qualifications to gain a foot hold. They have little to lose.
Australia clearly does not have the 'selling power' it once possessed to attract people from Europe, or at least the people they would prefer to get.

the troubadour

Standards have declined considerably since the nineties. From cost of dwelling to ratio of wages, to the ever increasingly lack of working security and conditions, to the rise in stress levels, related to previous mentioned factors, Not to mention growing inequality, no competition does not add to better services. Take the privatisation of job training for example. Just added to a massive hike in costs to the individual, and guaranteed profit for the 'private ' provider. Like most things privatised. Made a lot of money for a few but only added costs, often substantial for the user.
Bringing money into government coffers, is of little use, if not used correctly. The desire for tax cuts to the rich and big business while chopping services, was certainly not a wise or useful use of acquired government income.
House prices need to be deflated. A result of poor financial policy in the first place and government ineptitude to reign in a disaster clearly in the making years ago.
The Howard/Costello government are responsible for kicking of the whole sorry process but hardly alone in the blame game.
We need to get housing back to where a house is not a speculative item but a place where more traditional requirements are met . Not to mention cities return to places where working people can live and partake.

the troubadour

Japan is not some basket case. It is still one of the top economies in the world. Fact is we don't need more people in a time of technical change, something to which the Japanese are world beaters at.
With less workers being needed, Japanese industry will be required to share more of their growing wealth by paying more. Something the mining companies should have been forced to do in Australia.
I can't think why a big population of migrants, will be needed in the future. Age carers perhaps? Whatever happened to Japanese plans quite a few decades back, to house their aged in overseas locations. A big 'racist blue' fired off when QLD was mentioned as a site.

Beoz

Shinzō Abe is not agreeing with you.

Beoz

You are talking tongue in cheek there right?