Vash the Stampede

It's pretty simple, really: Australia doesn't have a mature and well-developed lobbying industry, like the US and UK. My perception is that corruption tends to be localised, small-scale stuff that does not affect the nation as a whole.

Yes, we've had our moments; just look at Western Australia in the 90s, where Brian Burke was king of the lobbyists. Look at WA Inc. and the Police Royal Commission. Great days, great days!

But for the most part, it's all rather boring stuff.

Here's the latest "big corruption story" to come out of Australia: a dodgy council taking bribes from developers and planners. Wow, what a scoop! I just can't understand why Reuters didn't fly all their best agents down here to cover that story for at least a month or more!

Now some examples from the USA... The vice-president is sued by an anti-corruption pressure group. Iraqi reconstruction contracts are awarded without competition, and the government does its best to conceal awkward facts surrounding the companies in question.

Members of the Bush administration are found to be deeply involved with the companies provided with Iraqi reconstruction contracts. Then it emerges that the companies have been blatantly overcharging on a whole range of contracts from the Balkans (1992-1999) to Iraq (2003 and beyond). Criminal investigations follow.

Four years after the commencement of the war, it emerges that corruption is still endemic and US funds are still being wasted on a grand scale.

Across the pond, we have Lobbygate; an amusing term used to describe the open secret that Britain's domestic policy is routinely bought and sold. Laws can be made or unmade (depending on your preference); all you need is a fistful of cash, and the right connections in Whitehall. Greg Palast investigated (posing as a prospective client) and learned how easy it was:
Source.

The REC in question was East Midlands Electricity. And sure enough, PowerGen bought it in 1998. Mysteriously, all political obstacles had been removed; even the government regulator now approved the deal.

Compared to all this, Australian corruption looks rather tame.

Sure, there's plenty of corruption Down Under. But to claim surprise when international watchdogs confirm that it's nowhere near as deep or as widespread as you personally believe it to be, is to ignore the evidence.

NKSK version 2

Hang on - have you missed everything that's happened here in the last 3 years?

Norm Marlborough
John D orazio
Victorian Police Corruption
Wollongong Council Corruption
Neale Fong-Brian Burke
Shelley Archer-Brian Burke

These were cases which I've just spent 5 minutes thinking about and all came to light in the last 2 years.

Vash the Stampede

I did say "the latest". Not "the only".

Norm Marlborough
John D orazio
Victorian Police Corruption
Wollongong Council Corruption
Neale Fong-Brian Burke
Shelley Archer-Brian Burke

These were cases which I've just spent 5 minutes thinking about and all came to light in the last 2 years.[/QUOTE]

Plenty of repetition there. Aything to pad out the figures, eh?

Three of your links refer to Brian Burke, whom I had already mentioned. One refers to the Wollongong Council, which I had already mentioned. One refers to the Victorian Police, which is a longstanding national disgrace but is at least being dealt with. And one refers to a politician who dodged speeding fines, thanks to a buddy in the relevant department who specialised in this type of fraud (shocking! how can our nation be safe when politicians escape their speeding fines?!)

So you've basically told me what I've already told you, and thrown in two wildcards for good measure. And there's nothing here that even comes close to the US/UK examples I've posted.

If it's a pissing contest you want, we can keep this up all day. But still it won't prove that Australia is as corrupt as you clearly want it to be.

JackTheLad

But when you see it, it's quite disturbing. Like our new Premier in QLD giving our previous premier a $300,000 a year job. And having the balls to come on tv and say 'sure its looks like jobs for the boys but it isn't'.

WTF Of course it is, there are 20 people more qualified than Peter Beattie to be our commerce ambassodor to the US. But they didn't help Mrs Bligh climb the slippery poll, so they aren't even considered.

Corruption, is rife in Australian government, federal and state. They can't even be arsed to hide it.

JTL

>Trigger<

Politics mate...nobody gives a stuff, you wait till they try to put a cent on the price of beer...then watch out!

JackTheLad

On a local level and a state level, I have to say the amount of corruption here is disgusting. And we only hear about 10% of it. All these people have their noses in the trough.

Ah! An idea for a new thread Aussie politicans are all corrupt.

Gotta go to bed though. Someone else do it . Night night

JTL

elfman

not much between the two (AUS/UK), according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupt...rception_Index

NKSK version 2

I thought there was a reformed Vash of late. I thought we'd seen the last of the Google-searching Vash who went the extra mile to win his pissing contest before disappearing when proved wrong.

You referred to Brian Burke in the 90s - i.e. past tense. It's current. And his network appears to be wide and deep in government.

Victorian Police - this has, in your words, been "dealt with" over the last 30 years. In fact it's been dealt with so well over the last 30 years that in December two or three high profile officers were sacked and the head of the union implicated in organised crime. Only time will tell how well it has been dealt with this time. (I suppose it's a bit like saying that there's no problem in Iraq because the Americans are "dealing with it")

Bearing in mind that the operation of the state government and the state police force seems to have a greater impact on my life and my family than the federal government, I'd have to say that the corruption of the police force and the lack of integrity and corruption in state governement makes your examples from the UK and US seem fairly irrelevant to me in comparison.

rabsody

I don't mean to be facetious but from the tone of your recent posts (not just in this thread) you seem to really loathe the UK. I know how it can feel to hate where you live! When are you coming back to Aus?

NikiL

I don't personally believe that UK politics is any less corrupt - they're just better at covering it up.

IvanM

Federal politics seems to be less corrupt than the UK but state and local politics is rotten to the core.

A good quote from the AHA (the lobbying group for pubs) "politics does not come cheap in NSW". The AHA is the largest donor to NSW politics.

Wollongong is the most recent example of a local council being sacked for being corrupted by developers. Not sure how Strathfield avoided it with the Mayor being caught being handed cash by the local mobster who has built monstrosities in the area. The same mobster has also used fear and force to move residents to move out.

Rockdale was another council riddled with corruption (and caught) a drive through the area and its hideous apartment blocks shows the problems graft brings.

Labour politics is dominated by powerful unions that are more interested in lining their own pockets than enriching their members. Those unions extort legitimate businesses and collude with organised crime to control lucrative building contracts.

Developers are running for councils all over Australia with locals non the wiser for their intent.

NSW and QLD police used to be so corrupt that it was hard to tell apart the criminals from the police. Police used to provide criminals with weapons and then conceal the guns. Police were also committing the crimes themselves. It was only when the deputy commissioner was caught that something was done. WA has only recently started the inquiries that NSW and QLD used to rout out the most rotten parts of the police. VIC politicians and the police unions are desparetely trying to keep a lid on the exposure and are still refusing to start a royal commission and create a corruption fighting body along the lines of ICAC in NSW.

MartinLuther

I think some people are unaware of how corrupt the sub-national government is in the UK. To be clear the corruption at the sub-national level in the UK is the same or similar to that found at the sub-national level in Aus. It may be more visible in Aus but it doesn't mean it's worse.

** Just because the toilets contain SHARPS containers does not mean the drug culture is worse **

IvanM

Indeed measuring corruption is tough and Transparency International only compares perception of corruption. It is impossible to truly compare corruption.

The only other measures are on the size of the black economy which looks at the cash economy compared to the declared economy.

On the local level the councils I have lived in both here and in Oz have been very transparent and lacked corruption. That is probably due to the high level of local activism in politics and the continued involvement of the community. The areas where corruption has been exposed tend to be where a party is dominant and local viewpoints have been marginalised and activism replaced by complacency.

Olibeneli

I think you are wrong. There is corruption you don't know about but I do
and I'm sorry I can't say any more.

Plenty of repetition there. Aything to pad out the figures, eh?

Three of your links refer to Brian Burke, whom I had already mentioned. One refers to the Wollongong Council, which I had already mentioned. One refers to the Victorian Police, which is a longstanding national disgrace but is at least being dealt with. And one refers to a politician who dodged speeding fines, thanks to a buddy in the relevant department who specialised in this type of fraud (shocking! how can our nation be safe when politicians escape their speeding fines?!)

So you've basically told me what I've already told you, and thrown in two wildcards for good measure. And there's nothing here that even comes close to the US/UK examples I've posted.

If it's a pissing contest you want, we can keep this up all day. But still it won't prove that Australia is as corrupt as you clearly want it to be.[/QUOTE]

Assegai

[QUOTE=rabsody;6092050]Ok, so by posting this I am admitting that I do read the Daily Mail online from time to time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...464&in_check=N

I thought the article had some interesting comments and showed some of the pros and cons to this emigrating lark! Some snippets:


HARDLY NEW IS IT! OVER 5 MONTHS OLD

HERE'S A BETTER ONE FROM THE DAILY MAIL FROM AN AUSSIE WHO THINKS IT SUCKS - MIND YOU, SHE DID LIVE IN PERTH ZZZZZZZZZ
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...own-Under.html