Originally Posted by patdbuck

Good advice, I a struggling to find this any chance you could post me the link to the thread?

Originally Posted by scottishcelts

Unless you live in QLD of course

Originally Posted by mohogony

or Darwin, the weather in OZ in only warm or hot all year round in the northern tropical part of OZ, most of the population of OZ live in the southern part where there is four seasons and it only gets hot during summer.

Originally Posted by Kapri

OP - We have decided to cancel our visa application as we don't want to take the risk in the current economic climate. We would both need to work and would have a big mortgage. At this moment in time the move probably wouldn't be an improvement.
HOWEVER - We live in a beautiful part of the country, by the sea. Our local schools are great (and free at point of access!). My OH has a reasonably secure job and I love my job. Other people's situations may be different.
If I lived in a bad area then it may be well worth emigrating if the emigration meant I could move somewhere better.

Originally Posted by robclaridge

Stay,go stay,go - Its an individuals choice and one question that keeps coming up!

If you have to ask 'others' then its obviously not the right time in your lives to be heading to new pastures overseas. Wait a while. You have 5 years!

.

Originally Posted by patdbuck

To anybody & everybody that has the time to read & respond,

This is my first time posting so apologies if it does not flow very well, I have so many questions that I thought I better split them into separate threads.

So to my first dilemma, should I migrate?

A pretty fundamental question I am sure you would agree and one that I have been struggling with since getting my skilled worker VISA back at the end of December. I know that at the end of the day the decision is mine to make, but would be interested to know what others think, and if nobody responds then that's OK too as I will try and do some soul searching whilst tapping away at the keyboard.

First a little bit about me and my plans:
Family man, good health (although I would say "could" my wife would say "should", loose a few pounds), 38 years young (with visions of living until my time is up), Hard working, IT Infrastructure Manager, with 20+ years IT experience, currently got a great family, nice house, good job, nice car, let the weekends pass me by and do not spend enough quality time with my wife and children, but I could probably potter around the North West of England for the next 40 years with the occasional escape to Oz, US and the good EU.

Or,
I could burst the comfort bubble, that surrounds me and my wife and think about starting a new life "down under", hopefully revaluating my life and investing time & energy in those that matter and hopefully having some fun & new experiences. At the same time perhaps giving my children a chance to experience a developing schooling system and escape the sadly failing UK education system, whilst replacing the often "can't do" and "successful people are bad people" attitudes they get bombarded with everyday at school, newspapers, TV and sadly by me and mum at home.

I do not have rose tinted spectacles (mine are the reactor light type) and know that in the end "life is what you make it" not "where you live it", although strange a little more sunshine seems to encourage my spirits to get things done and get out and about, and I think that now brings me to my concern, will I get work, will I try and create the same comfort bubble as in the UK, will we fit in and settle in.

If I had done this a couple of years ago before the "global economic decline" then I think my thoughts would be, I can get a job the other stuff will fall in place, but now I wonder how challenging the "getting a job" part will be? I am lucky that I have family in the NSW area that are willing to give us some support when we arrive (lodging, house hunting, contacts, etc) but still I am worried.

So, what to do, play it safe'ish in the UK and run the risk that in X months my job disappears anyway and by then my visa has expired or take life by the arm and lead it into uncertain maze?

Your feedback welcome, sadly this will I guarantee lead to question 2.....probably another epic!!!

Cheers

Paul

Originally Posted by folic

What is it about Australia that appeals to the UK imagination ?

Australia's hot. So are other countries which are a lot closer to the UK.

It has beaches and sun. So do other countries which are a lot closer to the UK.

English is spoken in Australia.

Australia is big. Yes, big and mostly unihabited and uninhabitable.

The Australian government promotes Australia a lot in the UK.


Anything else ?


Do people in the UK realise the immense distances between Australia's large cities ?

Do they realise how few large cities there are in Oz compared with the UK and Europe ?

Do they realise that if they need to travel from Sydney to Brisbane or Sydney to Melbourne, they will require to fly or spend a day or two driving or on a train ? Do they realise the expense of moving a family's possessions between say Brisbane and Melbourne or Sydney to Perth, should they change their mind about their original destination or need to take a job elsewhere ?

Coming for the lifestyle ? Like what ? Orienteering, surf-board riding, horse-back riding, motor-cycling, pottery, art or music lessons, picnics, mountain-climbing ?

Can't do those in the UK or Europe ? Need to come to Australia to go to the beach or fly a kite or go for a drive ?

Better life for the children ? Maybe. What is 'better', anyway ?

Do people hope to reinvent themselves by moving to the other side of the world ? Do they believe they and their lives will become more glamorous, more exciting, more youthful ?

Is it a 'trend' in the UK to migrate to Oz ? Do they feel that by emigrating, they've become more special and different to the rest ? Do they feel that by emigrating, they're able to leave their old selves and old lives behind ? Do they feel they've become minor celebrities by embarking on the immigration process .. the old 15 minute of fame thing ?

Do people in the UK realise how paralysingly hot and humid it is in many parts of Oz ? Do they realise there are as many social, employment and other problems in Oz as in the UK ?

I've heard so many people in Brit migrant forums mention the ' adventure' thing .. as in 'we just want to have an adventure'. I'm guessing the Oz government bases a lot of its spiel on the 'adventure' angle.

Those who have to work for their living in the Uk will still have to work for their living in Oz. They'll still have to wash the dishes and pay the bills. They'll still get older with each passing minute. The clock still ticks in Oz. They'll still have all the same problems as before, just in a different location.
So where's the 'adventure' .. apart from spending long hours on the beach slapping sunscreen on the kids before heading home into the blazing sun, covered in sand. But they have sand in the UK. And they have sunshine across the Channel.

Those who are not doing well in the UK aren't suddenly going to live as if they've won the Lottery, just because they've moved to Oz.

And those who're doing fine in the UK will in most cases land on their feet in Oz because they're able to bring more with them which will act as a buffer if things go haywire. So in effect, not much changes, apart from the SUN .. the same sun that prompts most Aussies to install air-conditioning in homes and vehicles and can restrict outdoor life in much the same way as do the cold and rain of northern Europe.

How much bar-b-que can people bear to eat, after all ? And don't they have bar-b-que in the UK and in easily accessible Europe ?

Do people in the UK believe life in Australia is one big sunny party ?

It's a mystery

Originally Posted by folic

You put that so well. It's the story of many second generation Aussies.

The parents always claim they want to move to Australia to 'give the kids a better way of life'. And maybe they believe that. But the truth often is .. it's the parents who want to 'scratch their own itch' (as Quoll .. who's currently enjoying her yearly sanity-break in the UK, has so succinctly phrased it repeatedly in here and elsewhere).


' We're going to Australia ! ' the parents excitedly announce to all and sundry back in the supposedly 'falling apart' UK. And sure, friends and family get all excited too .. the way Dick Whittington's parents probably did when he announced he was off to London, where the streets were paved with gold.

' We're going to Australia ! ' the parents announce to their children in explanation for all the vaccinations and all the selling up of familiar household items and finding a new home for the family pets.

' But I don't want to go to Australia ! ' the kids cry. ' I want to stay with Grandma and Grandad and Aunty Elsie and Uncle Mick and Jean and Adam and Rodney. I don't want to leave my school and my friends. I don't want to leave our house and garden and my bedroom. I don't want a new dog when we get there. I want to stay here !'

But who listens to kids, when all the neighbours and people at work are trying to say in an Aussie accent, ' Good onya mate ! Have a beer and a barbie for me when you get there. Half a chance and I'd be going with you, clap on back, big grin '. And the parents feel they're 'starting a new life' etc. All that attention from everyone they know, and people saying, ' Good for you, getting out of here (UK) .. you'll never regret it -- my uncle went to Oz in the 50s and he's still there --- so it must be Ok, eh ? ' (and of course, the uncle in Oz has never had the guts to tell family and friends back in UK that he's still in Oz because he's never been able to afford to leave ).

And the parents feel 'all young and adventurous again' and ride the wave of attention, anticipation and excitement.

As to the kids, who listens to them ? ' We're only going to Australia so you can have a better quality of life ! ' their parents tell them self-righteously. ' You should think yourselves lucky. Wish my parents had given me the chance to go to Australia when I was a little boy/girl. All that sand .. playing on the beach every day after school ! You'll see kangaroos and koalas. You'll get a lovely tan. And you'll be able to write to all your friends back here and send them photos ! They'd all like their parents to be taking them to Australia, let me tell you ! '


And the family arrives in Oz and Dad starts work .. and work is pretty much the same after a few weeks. Mum is frazzled because there isn't as much money or glamour in Oz as she'd told herself there'd be. Mum and Dad fight more. The sun burns the kids' eyes out and it's too hot to do much apart from loll around inside in the cool. Mum and Dad still keep having birthdays. They're not all that excited about Australia any more. They say to each other things like: ' You know, if we'd stayed at Home, we'd have had the house paid off and I'd have been promoted or retired by now. And did you know bloody Harry from the department back Home .. you know, the dip-head ? .. well, he's bought a place in France. Spends three months a year there. And he's been to the States three times since we came out here. '

By then, the kids have grown up. No matter how much they missed Grandma and Grandad and secretly planned to get back to them, the poor old things ran out of time and are dead now. The cousins have all grown up and haven't written for years. The aunties and uncles are unrecognisable these days in photos sent over from UK .. have grown older, greyer and their Christmas and birthday cards these days simply say 'Best Wishes' .. none of the excitement about the ex-pat members of the family and the 'new life in Australia' . Life has moved on. School friends from Home are married now. They stopped writing after a few months and didn't have much to say about those kangaroo and koala photos after all. Well, let's face it, you can find photos of Aussie flora and fauna anywhere. Life's moved on.

So the kids grow up in Australia feeling cut-off from all they loved and lost. But the sense of resentment lasts a lifetime. Sure, they adapt to Oz -- kids can adapt to almost anyplace. They have to. They live on a very ancient lump of rock at the end of the world, where most of the people gather on the very edges, like marooned mariners peering for sight of other life. And then they marry, most of them. They know nothing about extended families, because they were torn from theirs by their 'adventurous' parents who now live in a retirement home in Oz with the blinds drawn against the blinding sun. And, in the afternoons, when the worst of the heat is gone, the parents might totter down a dry, dusty street for their daily walk, seeking shade as they go beneath drooping, sparse, depressing grey-green leaf canopies. And although they may never admit it to each other, each, in his/her mind, is dreaming of Home, longing for the Home so few of them ever manage to see again.

Their kids and grandkids come to visit. The grandkids have been taken to the zoo and have patted a koala or kangaroo. Then, there's not a lot to say, apart from ' After we cook the bar-b-que, let's take it inside ? It's too hot outside anyway. And the flies will eat us alive.' Then, maybe they all watch re-runs of Neighbours. And pretend they don't care that they're a world away from Europe and Home and all they had/have to offer.

It's not a movie.

Originally Posted by livinginreality

I actually agree with Folic 100% on that post!It bloody baffles me as well?having lived in both countries for a long time,its abit laughable when you read some posts sprouting the odds of "I want to give my kids a better life"to"I want a more outdoors lifestyle"We actually stayed in more when we lived in Oz because in winter it was freezing,and summer,well unless you're on a death wish you're hardly going to be outside all day in blazing heat!We've actually had a much richer life here in the UK than we ever did in Oz.Yeah its a mystery!

Originally Posted by patdbuck

To anybody & everybody that has the time to read & respond,

This is my first time posting so apologies if it does not flow very well, I have so many questions that I thought I better split them into separate threads.

So to my first dilemma, should I migrate?

A pretty fundamental question I am sure you would agree and one that I have been struggling with since getting my skilled worker VISA back at the end of December. I know that at the end of the day the decision is mine to make, but would be interested to know what others think, and if nobody responds then that's OK too as I will try and do some soul searching whilst tapping away at the keyboard.

First a little bit about me and my plans:
Family man, good health (although I would say "could" my wife would say "should", loose a few pounds), 38 years young (with visions of living until my time is up), Hard working, IT Infrastructure Manager, with 20+ years IT experience, currently got a great family, nice house, good job, nice car, let the weekends pass me by and do not spend enough quality time with my wife and children, but I could probably potter around the North West of England for the next 40 years with the occasional escape to Oz, US and the good EU.

Or,
I could burst the comfort bubble, that surrounds me and my wife and think about starting a new life "down under", hopefully revaluating my life and investing time & energy in those that matter and hopefully having some fun & new experiences. At the same time perhaps giving my children a chance to experience a developing schooling system and escape the sadly failing UK education system, whilst replacing the often "can't do" and "successful people are bad people" attitudes they get bombarded with everyday at school, newspapers, TV and sadly by me and mum at home.

I do not have rose tinted spectacles (mine are the reactor light type) and know that in the end "life is what you make it" not "where you live it", although strange a little more sunshine seems to encourage my spirits to get things done and get out and about, and I think that now brings me to my concern, will I get work, will I try and create the same comfort bubble as in the UK, will we fit in and settle in.

If I had done this a couple of years ago before the "global economic decline" then I think my thoughts would be, I can get a job the other stuff will fall in place, but now I wonder how challenging the "getting a job" part will be? I am lucky that I have family in the NSW area that are willing to give us some support when we arrive (lodging, house hunting, contacts, etc) but still I am worried.

So, what to do, play it safe'ish in the UK and run the risk that in X months my job disappears anyway and by then my visa has expired or take life by the arm and lead it into uncertain maze?

Your feedback welcome, sadly this will I guarantee lead to question 2.....probably another epic!!!

Cheers

Paul

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

I live on the coast in the Illawarra and if you compare the seasons to the UK then I would say we only really get two. Summer and Winter. Spring has been and gone before you even notice and its supposed to be around 28c all this week, so that's hardly comparable with a UK Autumn.