Re: The mining tax
 

Wow. Please tell me you guys will all refuse to vote in the next election as there is some amazingly badly informed people out there on what is the biggest issue facing Australia today.

Ok. Lets have a look a mining 101.
1. The resources do NOT belong to the Oz people. They belong to the mining company who has already paid for them at exploration stage.
2. The profits are not going to a few forign people. Hello, do you have super? Mining invests more $ back in Oz that is taken out.
3. The resources are there for ever. Mmm yes, but mining in Oz is VERY expensive and difficult in many ways. There is a point at which it simply isnt worth it. For example the hills around Middlesborough still have massive iron ore deposits, but they will never be mined as its just too expensive.
4. Australia gets a VERY reasonable return from mining. The companies not only pay the same taxes that every other company pays but also the state royalties, the range of state and federal exploration fees and the taxes paid by employees. I wonder how people here would feel if say the goverment announced anyone who has moved to Oz in the last 10 years and moves here in the future will pay 80% tax.
5. The so called "super" profits. I can only talk for gold mining, but for a mine to be just viable it needs to make about 15%.

Re: The mining tax
 

Well said, talk about Australia trying to bite the hand that feeds it.

Re: The mining tax
 

Think you might be a tad biased on this one, stormy?

The resources may not belong to the Oz people but, in that case, why does the QLD 2010/11 Transport budget include a "highlight" that "$864.2 million for coal network track works and new and upgraded locomotives and wagons to support coal haulage across Queensland"? Something the Oz people will be funding.

Seems to me those mining companies are quite well looked after.

(Source: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/fi...ghts201011.pdf)

Re: The mining tax
 

It comes down to what is the effective tax rate compared to other businesses. With the royalties and concessions available it is not easy to compare.

BTW the resources are licensed to the mining companies with the right to mine. There should be certainty regarding that however the government should have recourse should the owners not be fulfilling their production and community responsibilites.

Profits get ploughed back into dividends although miners are low dividend payers. Those dividends are paid into our super as well as the pockets of the myriad of shareholders across the globe. By no means is mining an industry that spreads its wealth though hence the desire to tax.

Of the major minors
BHP is listed on the ASX, Rio is dual list on the ASX and LSE and Xstrata is listed on the LSE and Zurich exchange.

The people that seem to make the most from mining are the investment banks who chop and trade the companies.

I worked for a mining supply company and that happened to them. Office was closed.

Resources is a heavily cyclical industry. Australia needs to be ready for the downturns by putting aside enough. The resources industry increases the value of the AUD making other industries struggle. They also sap resources needed by other industries making Australia unattractive for manufacturing.

IMO resources should be taxed effectively to expand the sovereign wealth fund and ensure that a chinese downturn can be coped with.

BTW Australian iron ore is some of the cheapest to extract in the world. No resource is there forever.

Re: The mining tax
 

...they also artificially inflate the value of housing in rural areas close to mines making it impossible for locals to own.

This whole mining council scare tactics campaign really sh!ts me. Clive Palmer has already been shown up for the liar and scaremongerer that he is by admitting that his threats of projects all being canned were grossly exagerrated. Funny that he is also the Liberal & National Party's largest single doner:confused:
Those adverts were a disgrace, trying to take credit for Australia not going into recession and that it was mining that kept Australia out of it, yet it was mining the first sector to start shedding jobs by the bucket load.
Now Australia wants to stock pile its budgetry reserves again for another economical winter and all the fat lazy mice just want us to lounge around and enjoy the sun. If the situation was so bad here then I am sure all these large mining firms would have p!ssed off to Mongolia and Siberia a long time ago. Instead they are sticking around where they are making the most profits and as soon as the Govt wants to do anything about that they start crying poor. PLEASE!

Re: The mining tax
 

This is more controversial than politics and religion!:)
Seriously,I really want an unbiased,balanced,truthfull report on the mining sector.
Yes,I know-the mining sector pay and conditions are deplorable-why keep advertising for staff?:ohmy:Don't be conned in the working100+ hours a week for $2,000.00-think about it,do the same in your local state and you will make more dollars-FACT.
Backbone of Australia's economy,I accept that.
But the lies,mistruths,exgerations by both sides makes me :unsure:
Can anyone shed light in a simple straightforward explanation?

Re: The mining tax
 

I work for a company that has a department that only does analysis on Australian mining exploration. That is all that dept does. That dept has just recorded the biggest quarter in its 20 year history. Yet we are supposed to believe that these mining companies, for whom this department does all its work are shelving all current projects. I haven't seen any evidence of that, leading me to assume that it was one big bluff from the mining sector to hold onto those grossly inflated profits they make. The only other sector that I think gets away with more daylight robbery in Australia is the Banking industry.
I certainly think that Rudd underestimated the battle he was going to face on this topic and ultimately it cost him his position. I am not a Labour voter and never have been, however I prefer the stance this govt has taken to some of these monopolistic industries and corporations than the "bend over and take it" policy that Howard's lot employed. Telstra got away with the same robbery under Howard and were soon put in their place when Labour came in. I hope Labour stick to their promise that they will take on the Banking sector soon as that, for me is the last bastion of fat cats needing to be put in their place.

I realise this piece sounds like a Labour electioneering campaign so I will try and balance it out by looking at the crap things this govt has done (ie: Internet Filter, Emissions Trading)

Re: The mining tax
 

Thanks Broad:thumbup:
It isn't a black or white issue-or even a grey issue.

Re: The mining tax
 

Absolutely. For example Liberal party spokesman, oh sorry hold on, I mean mining magnate Clive Palmer was already caught out lying about supposedly shelved projects.

Re: The mining tax
 

It does my head in ... :blink:

Re: The mining tax
 

....as for those precious Super Funds that need to be protected due to their reliance on the mining sector. Would those be the same Super Funds that saw a nationwide average fall of more than 10% over the 2009 fiscal year? IE: your Super fund was worth less in 2009 than it was in 2008. The moral of that story? Don't invest in a super fund that puts all its eggs in one basket.

Re: The mining tax
 

So Broad Shoulder, you work for a employer. Tell me, what would happen if your employer was told tomorrow that the tax bill was going to 78%. I am guessing they wouldnt be too happy? Maybe your job would no longer exist? And why shouldnt you pay at least that in tax. How much net does your industry pay to the goverment? Less than mining? Oh, so maybe you should actually pay a premium to bring it in line with actual figures? Not a pleasent thought is it.

As for exploration booming, you are having a laugh. I am a exploration geo. Responsible for some big $$$ spends. Most of my friends are exploration geos. Most are already seeing projects being scrubbed, spend reduced and the number of vacancies in the industry has fallen on its ass.

The effect this has had is simple. No mines will close. No mines would have closed even if it had come in as planned. What will happen is simply a withdraw of future investment in areas such as exploration and mine expansion in favour of projects in countries that are viewed more favourably. The hard reality is, is that mining in Australia is VERY expensive (In the future i may set up my own exploration company but would not even dream of exploring here) At the same time the size of deposits is now fairly small on the global scale and difficult. A lot of projects are fairly marginal. So when a company is looking at making half a billion dollar investment to build a mine, knowing that at best they would see profit as such until year 8 of a 10 year mine life, then believe me, tax regime is pretty important.

Ah but wait, i see, so we make huge profits. Wait a minute while the guys around me dry their eyes. Coal and iron ore do at PRESENT. I work at one of the largest gold mines in Australia and we barely cleared 7 figures last year. And that was a good year! Oh, by the way, the company invested nearly 100 times that in new projects. But even coal and iron ore have limits. Mongolia has massive coal and iron ore deposits and until recently they have lain pretty dormant due to soverign risk and the fact they would be expensive and difficult to mine, so we mine WA and QLD instead. But, things like this can tip a fine balance. In fact i know one Perth company that has recently agreed to explore these on behalf of the Chinese goverment.

Then there is the "we will invest it in rural communities" rubbish. They have never invested in rural communities. A lot of the small towns in WA have their medical services care of mining, a lot of the roads, heck my mine even picks up the bill for a museum. And we arent even in the town.

If you didnt realise that it was the mining sector that kept Oz out of recession then please tell the rest of us who it was? Oh, and how are thing looking from the planet you are on? Maybe it was super Dudd? Oh, maybe it was all them school halls and home insulations

Re: The mining tax
 

Well we will soon see how badly those mining companies were doing it these last few months when they publish their quarterly reports. Better hope they show something other than bumper profits otherwise you Mine Criers will end up with egg on face.
You may be a geologist in the field but that doesn't make you a business expert in your field, you are paid to be a scientist...very different and therefore I am suspecting that you will believe everything your fat-cat bosses will tell you when they say it would have ruined the industry.

PS. I sit next to and work on a daily basis with a Geo-Physicist and he is employed to give scientific advice, not business analysis. Those that provide the business analysis are often also those that can produce the positive or negative spin to get what they want (I should know as that is what I do for a living unfortunately)

Re: The mining tax
 

Taxpayer did it through stimulii. Mining laid me off and I now work for the government.

Re: The mining tax
 

That can't be right! Those "gospel" mining ads said that it was mining that saved us!