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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by boots
(Post 10084108)
Then why is there 1,700 UNSKILLED Chinese coolies on the way to Roy Hill Iron Ore Rinehart Mine?
Plus the other 1,000's of Unskilled Foreign workers in place now,why was the "Highly Skilled"457 Polish worker killed on a rigging site????,he was doing a manual labour's job when he was killed,but he was a 457 Proffesional???? When I first arrived in Australia crane drivers on building sites earned more than 747 pilots, demanded conditions like free raybans, and were on strike most of the time. The building unions held everyone to ransom. With Gillard up the unions arse I don't blame companies for bringing in foreigners to get s site built in time to catch the boom. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084115)
They work hard, don't strike, and probably don't get the same benefits as Australian employed workers.
When I first arrived in Australia crane drivers on building sites earned more than 747 pilots, demanded conditions like free raybans, and were on strike most of the time. The building unions held everyone to ransom. With Gillard up the unions arse I don't blame companies for bringing in foreigners to get s site built in time to catch the boom. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by boots
(Post 10084158)
OK then,glad you like your kids eating a bowl of rice with a fish head for their main meal then!Butthats something that would never happen to a wealthy Nation is it?
The CFMEU has the BHP Bowen basin mine on its knees at the moment. who the hell wants this when they have delivery contracts with penalty clauses? It's been going on for 18 months now. Six mines all shut because of a bloody union. http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226365227020 And you wonder why they import labour? |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by scottishcelts
(Post 10082879)
:frown: no you won't. I love that pic.
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by Bermudashorts
(Post 10084278)
+1 :)
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10083813)
Slaphead thats damn right. Minings no job for the fainthearted or for fly by nights. Its a culture that breeds a culture. I come from a longline of coal and lead miners and steelworkers.
Its funny how times change, when I was a kid down in south wales back in the day, the teachers used to boost results by taking lads on schooltrips down the pits. The theory being the boys would work harder so they didn't have to: - "He described how, as a boy of 14, his dad had been down the mining pit, his uncle had been down the pit, his brother had been down the pit, and of course he would go down the pit." |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084174)
So tell Gillard to keep out of it, and tell the Unions to piddle off. The plant needs building quickly. Unions love things like this, and soon a few rolling stoppages gets things crawling and insane demands get met just to finish the job.
The CFMEU has the BHP Bowen basin mine on its knees at the moment. who the hell wants this when they have delivery contracts with penalty clauses? It's been going on for 18 months now. Six mines all shut because of a bloody union. http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226365227020 And you wonder why they import labour? |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by papilon
(Post 10084317)
I doubt there is much manual physical work envolved in modern open cast mining. I would imagine a much harder days work would be found on a residential housing site working as a framer,bricklayer or roofer as a contractor, 8 hours flat out with one 20 minute break for smoko. Main hardship in mining would be being away from family and working in extreme heat but compensated with some nice coin.
Th worst bit I remember was the dirt - either dust or mud that got everywhere, and as you say, being a long way from anywhere. One TV channel if you were lucky, ABC radio, no women, no entertainment and little interesting conversation. Most of the guys drank to excess and looked like it. I eventually realized that I was going to be like that if I didn't get out of it. A mindless drunk. Sadly, I still became one. :D |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by papilon
(Post 10084324)
i agree with the union part, just wish they could use non union local workforce.
An industry that treats its staff with contempt withers and dies. South Africa probably the greatest holder of natural mineral reserves has even woken up to that. The WA mining industry resembles pre-apartheid south africa more and more everyday. I remember when my gramp got offered a job down in South Africa back in the 70s. But then he heard the stories of black miners tossed to one side if they suffered an injury and left to die. What of the fate of the cheap imported labour slaphead? Or doesn't that matter when there is a fast few quid to be made for the Hancocks of this world? |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10084415)
Heaven forbid. Just let the mining industry snap everything up like locusts, leave holes in the ground and use all the cheap labour they need Gina Rhineheart soaking up $50 million a day on the basis that Lang Hancock staked a claim over ancient aboriginal land. A resource thats been sitting their for millions of years making a few people rich before dissapearing in 50.
An industry that treats its staff with contempt withers and dies. South Africa probably the greatest holder of natural mineral reserves has even woken up to that. The WA mining industry resembles pre-apartheid south africa more and more everyday. I remember when my gramp got offered a job down in South Africa back in the 70s. But then he heard the stories of black miners tossed to one side if they suffered an injury and left to die. What of the fate of the cheap imported labour slaphead? Or doesn't that matter when there is a fast few quid to be made for the Hancocks of this world? The unions here are just arseholes. They are not interested in the"workers" but like that twat Craig Thompson they are out for themselves - take Greg Combet as another example - OR they use the union power to push political agendas. They consistently shag every opportunity Australia has, and just keep on doing it. The CFMEU in the Bowen Basin is just another example of how these maffia like goons operate. The mines are happy to pay good money. What they want is freedom from politics and outside interference, and they don't get they when the unions are involved. you want a job in the mines - DONT have a background in a unionized industry.... |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084424)
I don't know how long you have been in Australia, but I have been here 26 years now, and I woke for ten long years in the resources area.
The unions here are just arseholes. They are not interested in the"workers" but like that twat Craig Thompson they are out for themselves - take Greg Combet as another example - OR they use the union power to push political agendas. They consistently shag every opportunity Australia has, and just keep on doing it. The CFMEU in the Bowen Basin is just another example of how these maffia like goons operate. The mines are happy to pay good money. What they want is freedom from politics and outside interference, and they don't get they when the unions are involved. you want a job in the mines - DONT have a background in a unionized industry.... I don't doubt much of what you say re union, but when you're backing a horse as deeply as Aussie's GDP is backing the mining oligarchs you've got have some control, because those boys will switch off the lights and say good night Vienna if and when it suits them to do so. When I read some of the posts on here re: Australian economy I wince. Australia always had a relatively journeyman economy, which has served it well. The mining boom has knocked everything out of kilta. 10-15% of Ausralia economy could be reliant on mining right now. What happens if there is a 25% drop off in resources demand thats 3% off the australian economy right there, not to mention the fall out in australian banking and services another 5%. Thats Greek proportions. You advocate letting a few hundred people dictate any terms they want, to the rest of the economy who suddenly find themselves uncompetitive: "First rule of Economics 101: our desires are insatiable. Second rule: we can stomach only three Big Macs at a time. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10084519)
Slaphead I'm actually writing this from the UK. I spent time in Australia a few years back and I'm married to an Australian girl. We may return at some point, but at the moment we're happy with our lot here, but I take an interest and the impact the Australian mining industry is having on the australian economy fascinates me. Its unprecedented in an advanced nation in the modern era.
I don't doubt much of what you say re union, but when you're backing a horse as deeply as Aussie's GDP is backing the mining oligarchs you've got have some control, because those boys will switch off the lights and say good night Vienna if and when it suits them to do so. When I read some of the posts on here re: Australian economy I wince. Australia always had a relatively journeyman economy, which has served it well. The mining boom has knocked everything out of kilta. 10-15% of Ausralia economy could be reliant on mining right now. What happens if there is a 25% drop off in resources demand thats 3% off the australian economy right there, not to mention the fall out in australian banking and services another 5%. Thats Greek proportions. You advocate letting a few hundred people dictate any terms they want, to the rest of the economy who suddenly find themselves uncompetitive: "First rule of Economics 101: our desires are insatiable. Second rule: we can stomach only three Big Macs at a time. 1. The big mines will close when they want, irrespective of unions or governments. Goodnight Vienna indeed. Having a unionized workforce won't help, any more than Red Robbo helped Leyland in the 1970s. - According to the BBC, "between 1978 and 1979 Mr Robinson was credited with causing 523 walk-outs at Longbridge, costing an estimated £200m in lost production". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_R...trade_unionist) 2. Virtually the whole country is bottom feeding off the mining boom right now. The shopgirl in a dress shop sells a dress to a secretary in a food company who supplies food to the guy who makes the bolts that holds together a bit of the mine. Its a giant food chain. In the late 80s I took the controls of the giant coal loader at Gladstone. This fed coal into the waiting ships to take it to Japan. They let me hold the controls under supervision, a bit like taking the wheel of a 747! The manager said to me - "don't break it, 6% of Australia's GDP goes through those two black handles in your hands"....... Back in Sydney everyone was sipping Chardoney, driving BMWs, and it was being paid for by the coal flowing though those two levers....... We have been beholden to mining for a long time. |
Re: The mining boom......
I also disagree about the "Greek proportions".
Greece is a disaster of EPIC proportions that is going to bring Europe to its knees - and that includes the UK. I have repeatedly commented on it, and has stupid answers like "we will just muddle through" you won't muddle through. Its heading towards the nightmare scenario i predicted, right down to massive migration of economic refugees to the UK. Yesterday the Home Secretary, Theresa May, said ''work is ongoing'' to restrict European immigration in the event of a financial collapse. For months now secret talks have been going on to try to stabilize Europe when Greece collapses. Australia has an exposure to the mining industry. The UK and the rest of Europe have political, financial and cultural ties to a living nightmare that looms ever faster. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084546)
I also disagree about the "Greek proportions".
Greece is a disaster of EPIC proportions that is going to bring Europe to its knees - and that includes the UK. I have repeatedly commented on it, and has stupid answers like "we will just muddle through" you won't muddle through. It's going to get damn ugly and damn painful. The current recession in the UK has already lasted longer than the Great Depression and they won't be getting out of it anytime soon. The best they can hope for now, is that Greece walks from the Euro and possibly the whole EU, and that the whole lot doesn't come crashing down around their ears. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084546)
I also disagree about the "Greek proportions".
Greece is a disaster of EPIC proportions that is going to bring Europe to its knees - and that includes the UK. I have repeatedly commented on it, and has stupid answers like "we will just muddle through" you won't muddle through. Its heading towards the nightmare scenario i predicted, right down to massive migration of economic refugees to the UK. Yesterday the Home Secretary, Theresa May, said ''work is ongoing'' to restrict European immigration in the event of a financial collapse. For months now secret talks have been going on to try to stabilize Europe when Greece collapses. Australia has an exposure to the mining industry. The UK and the rest of Europe have political, financial and cultural ties to a living nightmare that looms ever faster. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by Beaverstate
(Post 10084567)
Yes, and who follows Greece into bankruptcy. The problem is that it wont likely stop at Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy..etc... Most likely will infect all modern economies. By the way, no easy exit for Germany with or without the Euro.
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Re: The mining boom......
My grandparents lived though the Great Depression. They did it hard, but all of them said others did it much harder.
A great uncle who had returned from WW1 with a Military Cross for valor took out his old service revolver and ended his life over it. Poor bugger. I think the idea that we will muddle through is a bit like saying the Jews had a bit of a rough time in WW2. I think no one alive now has any idea of how tough its going to get - and I include Australia in that. And its going to happen, like it or not. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by renth
(Post 10084573)
True, the problem isn't so much the countries defaulting on their debts it's the trillions of dollars in over the counter derivatives (side bets, made on countries treasuries) that will have to be paid out, except they won't be because the counterparty will be bankrupt. It will bring the entire global financial system to it's knees.
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084576)
My grandparents lived though the Great Depression. They did it hard, but all of them said others did it much harder.
A great uncle who had returned from WW1 with a Military Cross for valor took out his old service revolver and ended his life over it. Poor bugger. I think the idea that we will muddle through is a bit like saying the Jews had a bit of a rough time in WW2. I think no one alive now has any idea of how tough its going to get - and I include Australia in that. And its going to happen, like it or not. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084576)
My grandparents lived though the Great Depression. They did it hard, but all of them said others did it much harder.
A great uncle who had returned from WW1 with a Military Cross for valor took out his old service revolver and ended his life over it. Poor bugger. I think the idea that we will muddle through is a bit like saying the Jews had a bit of a rough time in WW2. I think no one alive now has any idea of how tough its going to get - and I include Australia in that. And its going to happen, like it or not. |
Re: The mining boom......
Dunno, i can't help feeling a lot of this is being overpayed. I do have reservations if it is actually as bad as they make out. Yes, trading in derivatives has been the big joke which has create a slush fund of non-existant money which has been funding the likes of Greece. However a lot of this debt accrued by governments isn't structural, its bank prop ups and the UK for example will get a lot if it back.
For my money the more major worry is Australia's gravy train China is getting a reality check and the other so-called emerging superpower 'India' os going nowhere fast with major bureaucratic problems bringing growth and exports tumbling. The main problem for the UK is the govt full of clowns that ain't got a clue following.There's significant undercapacity in the UK economy at the moment and as soon as that starts getting propelry mobilised, much of the debt will dissapear. The sooner Greece gets out of the euro the better to make itself competitive, but its not going to happen because the Germans are making hay out of the whole thing. For all the bullshit rhetoric coming out of the IMF and the ECB about austerity German exports are booming. Why because their benefiting enormously from being in a currency unit worth 40% less than what a deustchmark would be worth. The reason Greece is up shitcreek is quite frankly because their a bunch of lazy ******. Took the missus in the dodecanese islands last summer and you'd go into a shop and the miserable old duffer outside would stay locked in his chair rather than get up and sell you something. 2 nautical miles away over in neighbouring Turkey they were practically manhandling you into their shops. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by slapphead_otool
(Post 10084532)
I disagree with a couple of points you make, although I agree with the sentiment.
1. The big mines will close when they want, irrespective of unions or governments. Goodnight Vienna indeed. Having a unionized workforce won't help, any more than Red Robbo helped Leyland in the 1970s. - According to the BBC, "between 1978 and 1979 Mr Robinson was credited with causing 523 walk-outs at Longbridge, costing an estimated £200m in lost production". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_R...trade_unionist) 2. Virtually the whole country is bottom feeding off the mining boom right now. The shopgirl in a dress shop sells a dress to a secretary in a food company who supplies food to the guy who makes the bolts that holds together a bit of the mine. Its a giant food chain. In the late 80s I took the controls of the giant coal loader at Gladstone. This fed coal into the waiting ships to take it to Japan. They let me hold the controls under supervision, a bit like taking the wheel of a 747! The manager said to me - "don't break it, 6% of Australia's GDP goes through those two black handles in your hands"....... Back in Sydney everyone was sipping Chardoney, driving BMWs, and it was being paid for by the coal flowing though those two levers....... We have been beholden to mining for a long time. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10085092)
The reason Greece is up shitcreek is quite frankly because their a bunch of lazy ******. Took the missus in the dodecanese islands last summer and you'd go into a shop and the miserable old duffer outside would stay locked in his chair rather than get up and sell you something. 2 nautical miles away over in neighbouring Turkey they were practically manhandling you into their shops.
Perhaps you should review your opinion. |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus
(Post 10085297)
Greek working statistics like the entire economy are a load of nonsense. I'm not sure a Cretans barmans chasing skirt all night in a tourist town is quite the same as an honest days work producing hi-tech for components for the automotive industry... |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10085345)
I'm not sure a Cretans barmans chasing skirt all night in a tourist town is quite the same as an honest days work producing hi-tech for components for the automotive industry...
(chasing skirt, BTW) |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10085345)
I've come across this before and it comes as no surprise to me. Its the productivity stats that matter and frankly in Greece the reality is pitiful. There's a big difference between working for a hi-tech German engineering firm or any German firm for 38 hours a week and sitting on your arse in a taxi in the greek Islands with the meter running, or having the shopdoors open all hours while you carry on playing backgammon with the shopowner next door. I've known many a folk work for Siemens, bosch, lidl, Aldi et al. Big German companies and it is no picnic and they will all tell you that they get their pound of flesh with every minute of your day accounted for.
Greek working statistics like the entire economy are a load of nonsense. I'm not sure a Cretans barmans chasing skirt all night in a tourist town is quite the same as an honest days work producing hi-tech for components for the automotive industry... |
Re: The mining boom......
p.s The Spanish, Italian and several others productivity stats are absolutely rubbish. What a load of horseshit that article is...
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus
(Post 10085357)
No stereotypes here then....
Trying to blame the Greeks as a people rather than the banks and politicians. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with national stereotypes like: Scottish = drunk, Irish = drunk/violent, Australian = lazy, English = whingers. |
Re: The mining boom......
Management studies have shown that if you take individuals from a low productivity organization and put them in a high performance culture they will change to be like their new colleagues. It is a reason Greeks migrate like the Irish.
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10085345)
I've come across this before and it comes as no surprise to me. Its the productivity stats that matter and frankly in Greece the reality is pitiful. There's a big difference between working for a hi-tech German engineering firm or any German firm for 38 hours a week and sitting on your arse in a taxi in the greek Islands with the meter running, or having the shopdoors open all hours while you carry on playing backgammon with the shopowner next door. I've known many a folk work for Siemens, bosch, lidl, Aldi et al. Big German companies and it is no picnic and they will all tell you that they get their pound of flesh with every minute of your day accounted for.
Greek working statistics like the entire economy are a load of nonsense. I'm not sure a Cretans barmans chasing skirt all night in a tourist town is quite the same as an honest days work producing hi-tech for components for the automotive industry... |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by renth
(Post 10085351)
True, but I know which one I'd rather be doing!
(chasing skirt, BTW) |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
(Post 10085778)
Sieman would still be involved, make no mistake.
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Re: The mining boom......
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by WestLondonWelshman
(Post 10085345)
I've come across this before and it comes as no surprise to me. Its the productivity stats that matter and frankly in Greece the reality is pitiful. There's a big difference between working for a hi-tech German engineering firm or any German firm for 38 hours a week and sitting on your arse in a taxi in the greek Islands with the meter running, or having the shopdoors open all hours while you carry on playing backgammon with the shopowner next door. I've known many a folk work for Siemens, bosch, lidl, Aldi et al. Big German companies and it is no picnic and they will all tell you that they get their pound of flesh with every minute of your day accounted for.
Greek working statistics like the entire economy are a load of nonsense. I'm not sure a Cretans barmans chasing skirt all night in a tourist town is quite the same as an honest days work producing hi-tech for components for the automotive industry... |
Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by Beaverstate
(Post 10085998)
While I wouldn't use all your examples... I agree with the productivity over just hours "worked":nod:
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
(Post 10085778)
Sieman would still be involved, make no mistake.
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Re: The mining boom......
Originally Posted by renth
(Post 10085449)
Personally, I'm uncomfortable with national stereotypes like: Scottish = drunk, Irish = drunk/violent, Australian = lazy, English = whingers.
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