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MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Old Mar 22nd 2014, 11:58 pm
  #346  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by GarryP
Thus far it looks like suicide (which is why the pilots are trying to come up with some other idea). Nobody is quite sure why he would aim to avoid radar, disappear and then look to ditch the aircraft in the middle of nowhere - rather than just head directly downwards, but it's the best scenario for fitting the facts that people have come up with.

The problem with hijack is nobody on the aircraft looks like a likely candidate, and no message got out at all. In theory you might have had someone who was hijacking the aircraft, incapacitated the pilots almost immediately, had the FMS fly a route towards somewhere north, then stack it over the Andaman Islands - but the ping/flight time doesn't work.
That sounds about right. Especially now that they are finding debris on the flight path. Perhaps the suicidal pilot put himself and the other pilot to sleep (drugs or poison) and just set the plane to fly to the middle of nowhere. But so callous if he did that, with so many lives on board, and from the pictures of the pilots, they did not seem that type. Maybe some kind of foul play.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 12:02 am
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by Shard
That sounds about right. Especially now that they are finding debris on the flight path. Perhaps the suicidal pilot put himself and the other pilot to sleep (drugs or poison) and just set the plane to fly to the middle of nowhere. But so callous if he did that, with so many lives on board, and from the pictures of the pilots, they did not seem that type. Maybe some kind of foul play.

Unless they really were a couple..... Not a good place to be Gay..... Malaysia.

Speculation of the extreme order I know, but it would make sense from the circumstances and that point of view and the lasting effect on Malaysia.

A lot depends on the flight sim erased data now.... I wonder if it was CC wiped ?

Last edited by ozzieeagle; Mar 23rd 2014 at 12:05 am.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 2:54 am
  #348  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

>>I got the impression the focus is now more on the possibility of incapacitated crew ( through something like hypoxia) with the plane flying on until the fuel was exhausted.?<<

The max altitude of all versions of the -777 is 43100'. I think the most illuminating "fact" that could be verified is the 45,000' that is reported as measured by the Thais. Presumably it's trigonometrically derived and not that accurate.

But if the thing DID climb to 45k feet it would definitely indicate a deliberate act. I suspect the 777, being FBW, has inputs to stop climb beyond the aerodynamic limits so it would have to have been an aggressive attempt at the altitude.

The only conclusion for that would be that *someone* intended to kill everyone on board.

If the FMC was programmed to descend after half an hour and head for the South pole it's a fair bet that the evidence would never be found.

Pure speculation, and just as valid/invalid ans any other
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 3:16 am
  #349  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by Wol
The max altitude of all versions of the -777 is 43100'. I think the most illuminating "fact" that could be verified is the 45,000' that is reported as measured by the Thais. Presumably it's trigonometrically derived and not that accurate.

But if the thing DID climb to 45k feet it would definitely indicate a deliberate act. I suspect the 777, being FBW, has inputs to stop climb beyond the aerodynamic limits so it would have to have been an aggressive attempt at the altitude.
On PPrune someone with access to a proper 777 flight sim tried it. It IS possible to get to 45k feet, but not to stay there properly in flight. The basic issue is the stability of flight - the gap between how fast you can go and the stall speed. The official ceiling has some margin in it, and you can go faster than max speed if you 'take a run up'.

Originally Posted by Wol
The only conclusion for that would be that *someone* intended to kill everyone on board.

If the FMC was programmed to descend after half an hour and head for the South pole it's a fair bet that the evidence would never be found.
Pure speculation, and just as valid/invalid ans any other
Yeah, I think that for most of those 4 hours there was nobody alive onboard the aircraft. Of course, if there were a way in which you could actually get out of the 777 in flight, one of the scenarios would be that someone 'got off' to 'disappear'. However it appears that this is not something you can achieve.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 3:18 am
  #350  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

D B Cooper?
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 3:34 am
  #351  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by Wol
D B Cooper?
Best way of having nobody looking for you if they never find the plane and thus any bodies.

However, to do it in cold blood you'd need sociopathic tendencies - I wonder if they have a psych assessment of the pilot and copilot?
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 5:26 am
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

May have been discussed but should the US send an aircraft carrier from the Persian Gulf, assuming they have on in the gulf. The search area is so far from land, search aircraft capable of carrier landings could do with a runaway and petrol station mid ocean.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 5:54 am
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by Beoz
May have been discussed but should the US send an aircraft carrier from the Persian Gulf, assuming they have on in the gulf. The search area is so far from land, search aircraft capable of carrier landings could do with a runaway and petrol station mid ocean.
Err, only one problem with that genius idea - the Orion P3 and Poseidon P8 are two aircraft that DON'T fly from carriers.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 6:06 am
  #354  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by renth
a P3 Orion just flew over my house. I've seen a couple today already plus a Globemaster. I'm listening out for the Poseidon.

I don't think they are going to find anything, sadly. Hope I'm wrong though.

[edit] just watching the news, it wasn't a Globemaster it was a Chinese heavy lift aircraft, heading out to the search area at about lunchtime today. The news is the Chinese have spotted something by satellite and I think they've sent their plane out to check it out so they can get the glory if it's MH370. It was this one: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/ful...f-perth-coast/[/edit]
The P8 Poseidon flew over here a few days ago. I noticed it because airliners are usually further to the north on the rare occasions that they fly over this way

It was low too
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 7:44 am
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by GarryP
Err, only one problem with that genius idea - the Orion P3 and Poseidon P8 are two aircraft that DON'T fly from carriers.
As I said. ...... Aircraft carrier capable planes.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 8:17 am
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by Beoz
As I said. ...... Aircraft carrier capable planes.
But the planes set up for this work - and big enough to be able to do it right, are these aircraft, which are land based.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 8:41 am
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Unless they really were a couple..... Not a good place to be Gay..... Malaysia.

Speculation of the extreme order I know, but it would make sense from the circumstances and that point of view and the lasting effect on Malaysia.

A lot depends on the flight sim erased data now.... I wonder if it was CC wiped ?
Possible, but a speculation too far methinks. Still trying to get my head around a captain could be so selfish to take down a whole plane of innocent people based on his own personal suicide. I realise it is believed to have happened with Egypt Air but it just seems so unlikely.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 9:27 am
  #358  
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by Shard
Possible, but a speculation too far methinks. Still trying to get my head around a captain could be so selfish to take down a whole plane of innocent people based on his own personal suicide. I realise it is believed to have happened with Egypt Air but it just seems so unlikely.
Not that unlikely: off the top of my head there's Egyptair, Silkair and the Japanese pilot who dived a DC8 (?) into Tokyo Bay.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Originally Posted by GarryP
But the planes set up for this work - and big enough to be able to do it right, are these aircraft, which are land based.
Yes but the land based ones, whilst being set up for the work, can only do an hour or 2 searching a day. Choppers and carrier based aircraft can spend a lot more time over the area if they in the area. From what we are told, most of the searching is naked eye searching anyway.
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 9:57 pm
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Default Re: MH370 - Kuala Lumpur to Beijing - missing

Some info from today's Telegraph on the pilots (apologies if old info) ...

Then at 1.19am, Hamid, the co-pilot, spoke his last known message of "All right, good night" to air traffic control in Malaysia as the plane shifted into Vietnamese airspace. Investigators are still completing analysis of Hamid's voice pattern to determine whether the 27-year-old, who was planning to marry his 26-year-old pilot girlfriend, was being coerced or was speaking under duress.
Two minutes after the final message at 1.21am, the plane's transponder was turned off, apparently deliberately disabled. MH370 slipped off Malaysian radar screens nine minutes later and it never made it on to those of Vietnam. Instead, the plane took a sharp and unexpected turn westward and flew silently for almost seven hours, probably in a southerly direction.
If passengers had seized control of the plane, they would likely have done so in the two-minute window between the point when Hamid spoke to air traffic control and the moment the transponder was switched off.
Aside from a glimpse on Malaysian military radars, which showed the plane had steered wildly off course, MH370 has not been seen since.
As yet, however, police have found no evidence of a plot cooked up by the pilots or of signs that either man had psychological problems.
Malaysian police are hoping vital clues may emerge from Zaharie's three-screen home flight simulator, a much-loved device on which he played three games: Flight Simulator X, Flight Simulator 9 and X-Plane 10.
The bizarre westward turn by MH370 while above the Gulf of Thailand took the plane onto routes that Malaysia Airlines does not fly; if the plane, as is believed, ended up in the southern Indian Ocean, neither pilot had previously steered a plane there.
On Feb 3, apparently some weeks before he would have been aware of the flight details for MH370, Zaharie deleted the game logs from his simulator. It is believed he practised on five runways across the Indian Ocean.
Malaysian criminal investigators called in FBI forensic experts to try to recover the files but early assessments have found nothing suspicious. A complete copy of the machine's hard drive has been sent to the US for further investigation.
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