K14

says it all really

dejags

I am astounded at the level of animosity directed towards a couple who none of you have ever met.

Have none of you ever heard the old saying - "don't believe everything the papers tell you"?

Without having been there, without knowing the people involved and without knowing the FACTS (i.e. not something you read in the Sun or on some website) - I would like to know how it is possible to be so CERTAIN of what happened that night.

All we know for certain is that she was left alone. She went missing. What transpired in between should not be the subject of idle speculation, if for no other reason, than it is damn disrespectful to that little girl.

Her family (not just her parents) and friends could be reading this. Can you imagine the agony of her grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins and how much it would hurt for them to have to deal with this 2 years after her disappearance?

JackTheLad

Jeez you won't let an argument lie will you?

I don't know which documentary it was either, but it had funky graphics of the resort and the hotel, and the tapas bar, and they repeatedly said (and showed) they had a clear line of sight to their apartment. It was shown on the CI network here.

And since when did 100 metres becomes a huge distance?

I can hear my daughter whinge from from 100 metres

JTL

redlion

I just love the sanctimonious holier than thou comments that some people have directed towards this family. If they are to be locked up and the key thrown away for leaving their kids in the manner they did then there would be one hell of a lot of parentless kids around becuase their mum and dad would be banged up till they rot. Nobody is questioning that what they did was stupid but im pretty sure sure that many people have taken a little chance here or there with their own kids if they are totally honest, we know its wrong but it happens. driving the knife into this couple when there is no proof of any of the ranting directed at them on here. God forbid that one of you ever make an error of judgement one day and look around for some support. But of course that would never happen because we are all perfect arnt we.

Nev.

Pollyana

From the plans of the complex, which are included in the book I mentioend earlier, there is a clear line-of-sight to the apartment. However bushes obstruct the view of the actual apartment doorway.

I'd actually recommend that people interested in the case read it. Its got far less of the sensationalism that is normal in a lot of accounts of cases like this, but has a lot of balanced discussion of events from the point of view of the police, the family, and those who were around at the time - fellow holiday-makers, and complex staff.

Vash the Stampede

My wife can scent an unpaid bill from twice that distance...

johnokiwi

Like many I have been reading this post with interest and know from the start of this tragic case that views have been somewhat polarized..like many, try as I might I cannot get over that fact that the McCanns left their kids alone that (and all the other nights) and because of this fact I just find it difficult to support them (although as a parent I can only imagine the hell of losing a child like this)
Going back to what really happened that night, as a parent of kids close in age like the McCanns, I know that it would be impossible to leave three of them alone at that age at night without at least one of them waking up on multiple occasions over that two week period ...and even if they were checked 'every 15 mins' (which I find impossible to believe happened in reality - can you imagine the disruption to their meals?!) this would not be sufficient to prevent some harm occuring (whether it be abduction or simple falling over, choking on something etc, etc) especially if the apartment was not locked! Because of this I can't help myself keep coming back to the idea that they gave all the kids some kind of sedative, whether it be antihistamine or something more potent each and every night which is risky obviously - especially when kids aren't even supervised!
As for any reported delay in calling the police initially - if this is true it just smacks of self-interest by the McCanns and their friends - i.e.their fear of prosecution for neglect more important than immediately informing the police and getting the best start in searching for the poor girl!

scottishcelts

Yip, sums it all up quite well johno - mostly everyone i have spoken to about this feels the same way (the exceptions being childless people funnily enough!)

ShoreyM

Something that makes me think this wasn't an abduction, or that she wandered off is the confirmation by the cadaver dogs that there had been a dead body in the wardrobe and behind the sofa. I don't understand how that can be true if the parents are convinced she was abducted.

Cheetah7

If anyone thinks that leaving a 4 year old and two BABIES alone in an apartment while you go out for a meal - albeit checking them every ten minutes is acceptable, how would you feel if you hired a babysitter who decided to leave your children just for ten minutes to go to the shops/pub/restaurant - even if it was in clear view of the front of the house?

You see - being able to clearly see the apartment from the tapas bar is one thing but houses do usually come more than one door and more than one escape route.

I am not saying the McCanns should be imprisoned/punished/beaten/burnt etc. I am saying that nothing and I mean nothing excuses leaving a 4 year old alone with two babies.

It is not the same as leaving them in the garden while you are doing the washing up. They left the property - plain and simple.

Perhaps they believed none of the kids would wake up and that 10 mins checks on the children would suffice.

We will never know if the children did wake up that night, we will never know what happened.

Only Maddie knows and she has paid a far higher price than anyone.

scottishcelts

I wonder if The McCanns parents (the grandparents) knew they left the children alone when the went away on holidays and tried to talk them out of doing so. The mind boggles.

johnokiwi

I remember someone, I think it was Gerry McCann's sister or something, being interviewed at the time and defending their decision to leave the kids alone..saying something like they didn't trust the babysitting service at the apartments!!!

BenandPam

I am glad someone else has picked up on this. The scent was also discovered in their hire care along with further traces of blood.
Having recently read up on this case, and watched the video I linked to in an earlier post, there is something wrong with the whole abduction thing. My theory is that Madeline died as a result of an accident in the apartment, and that the McCanns paniced because an autopsy would find traces of sedatives, along with their clearly negligant behaviour.

All quotes are from http://madeleinefoundation.org/main/30-reasons/

"The constant altering and conflicting accounts by the Doctors McCann and their friends of how often they checked their children, and about what really happened on 3rd May, have confused those trying to investigate Madeleine’s ‘disappearance’ and poured doubt on their original assertions, on 3rd May, that they were ‘checking every 15 minutes’. To put it mildly, there are many doubts as to whether the McCanns were checking their children regularly while they were dining out, if at all." Regarding the time line, how do we know with any certainty when the children were last checked if the accounts from the McCann's friends are in doubt ?

"According to the official police summary report released in July this year - and confirmed by video evidence of the dogs in action in Praia da Luz, widely available on the Internet - Eddie, the cadaver dog, found the ‘smell of death’ in the following places. We quote the exact words of the report:

a)in the McCanns’ apartment, Apartment 5A, Eddie the cadaver the dog detected the scent of a human corpse (human cadaverine):

(i)in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, around a wardrobe, and
(ii)in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the external window of the apartment.

Also, a ‘lighter’ scent of death was found in the flower beds in the back yard, near the foot of the steps leading down from the patio.

b) on family items of clothing, Eddie found the scent of a corpse as follows:

(i)on two items of Kate McCann’s clothing, and
(ii)on one item of Madeleine’s clothing – a T-shirt.

c) in addition, Eddie the cadaver dog was taken to the house that the McCanns rented, in a different part of Praia da Luz, after they left Apartment 5A. Eddie found cadaverine on what was said to be Madeleine’s favourite pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’, which Dr Kate McCann always had with her when being interviewed by the media - but which Eddie detected lying in an otherwise empty cupboard.

d) on top of all that, Eddie, sniffing the car from the outside only, detected cadaverine in the car the McCanns hired on 22nd May, less than three weeks after Madeleine ‘disappeared’ - a Renault Scenic:

(i)on the car key
(ii)around the door of the front driver’s seat."
No one had died in the McCann's apartment or car before they used them, so where did the smell come from ?

"Meanwhile, Keela, the blood-hound, found the smell of blood - note, blood, not just ‘body fluids’:

a) in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the external window of the apartment (exactly where Eddie had found the scent of human cadaverine), and

b) in the McCanns’ hired Renault Scenic:

(i)on the car key
(ii)in the interior of the car boot."
Likewise the traces of blood ?

"According to a number of reports which have never been contradicted, while hundreds of people, including staff of Mark Warners and many local people, searched the area around the Ocean Club apartments for hours after Madeleine went missing, not one of the McCanns’ friends, known as the ‘Tapas 9?, bothered to do so. They all went to bed." Why ?

There are some other things that bother me about the McCanns.

Why did they hire lawyers so soon after Madeleine disappeared ?
Why did they agree to take a lie detector test and then back out of it ?
Why did Kate McCann wash her daughter's toy cat, which could have contained DNA from the so called abductor ? The same cat that was later to have the smell of a cadaver detected on it ?
How did the McCanns get a supply of posters showing a picture of Madeleine ready just 2 hours after she had disappeared when the printer they claimed to have used at the resort couldn't have produced those pictures ?
Why did they hire 3 firms of private investigators, non of which had any track record in finding missing people ?

As far as I am concerned, and it saddens me to say it, the only way Madeleine will be found is if someone discovers her grave.

DunRoaminTheUK

I do and have always agreed with the point that the parents were neglectful in leaving their child unattended. I think this is quite simply an unavoidable fact.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

A question for all then.... at what age do you think its OK to leave your kids?. Four is obviously ridiculous, but what about say, twelve?