Manchester

Old Jun 12th 2017, 8:28 am
  #196  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by morpeth
The 1% figure just an assumption- the British security service official interviewed on BBC stated that 500 cases were being "actively" investigated which involved 3,000 people , and that another 20,000 were individuals identified "of concern". I don't think unreasonable to assume there are some the British security services haven't yet identified, so say 7,000. At 30,000 if the Muslim population in Britain 3 million, that would be 1%. Just roughly seems the figure of 1% in probability a more accurate figure to use that .1%.

Kind of worrisome one would think that 1 out of 100 may have already shown some indication of being or having distinct potential to become terrorists.
MI5 said 3,000 were under active surveillance - that's where the figure came from so it's 1 in over 1,000 because there are over 3 million muslims in the UK. Now of these 1 in 1,000 how many do you reckon are going to take it beyond looking at certain websites into what has happened in the 3 incidents? We're just going around in circles though. I don't want to get into a Trump he said, I said, he said, I said, he said, I said.
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Old Jun 12th 2017, 9:53 am
  #197  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by OzTennis
We're just going around in circles though. I don't want to get into a Trump he said, I said, he said, I said, he said, I said.
Or even worse, he said stupidly, I said really really well, he said terribly, I said really really really well, he said horribly, I said really really really really well, the best it's ever been said, by the best, most admired, smartest, greatest leader in the whole entire world, ever, covfefe
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Old Jun 12th 2017, 1:12 pm
  #198  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I get that you support all UK police carrying guns. But I find it very sad and a bit disturbing that the sight of machine guns and cordoned off areas excites you.
Just reporting what I saw.

Guns don't excite me, except at a pheasant hunt. But I do feel with the current actions of our Islamic Extremists, its time to deploy a bit of common sense.
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Old Jun 12th 2017, 2:55 pm
  #199  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I get that you support all UK police carrying guns. But I find it very sad and a bit disturbing that the sight of machine guns and cordoned off areas excites you.
Guns are super cool

I miss them

I love living in Australia but the difficulty of owning weapons is one of its biggest drawbacks. Can't have it all I guess
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Old Jun 12th 2017, 2:55 pm
  #200  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by OzTennis
MI5 said 3,000 were under active surveillance - that's where the figure came from so it's 1 in over 1,000 because there are over 3 million muslims in the UK. Now of these 1 in 1,000 how many do you reckon are going to take it beyond looking at certain websites into what has happened in the 3 incidents? We're just going around in circles though. I don't want to get into a Trump he said, I said, he said, I said, he said, I said.
Just we are saying different things. In addition to 3,000 under active surveillance ( involving 500 cases), the government stated another 20,000 have been identified as "of concern". I do not think it unreasonable to also conclude that there are some that should be under surveillance, or of concern, that the government may not have identified. Is the figure of potential threats of .1% per the quote more likely than the figure of 1% ? Neither figure is acceptable- and I would say better to be safe than sorry and work with the higher figure. Of course if more are coming into the country yearly, whether 1 out of 1000 or 1 out of 199, the threat increases.

Sure maybe you are right some " of concern" may never make terrorist acts- but why take the risk ?

And the issue is ? How much more protection is needed against the threat and what measures can be taken to reduce the threat.
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Old Jun 12th 2017, 6:30 pm
  #201  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by Amazulu
Guns are super cool

I miss them

I love living in Australia but the difficulty of owning weapons is one of its biggest drawbacks. Can't have it all I guess
Join a gun club?
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Old Jun 12th 2017, 8:13 pm
  #202  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Join a gun club?
....or a bikie gang?
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Old Jun 13th 2017, 1:28 am
  #203  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by OzTennis
Simple: assumed 3,000 out of 20,000 meant 20,000 and then assumed the figure was understated so could be 30,000 which is 1%. It wasn't in the same realm as the other poster who had the 3,000 all doing what a handful have done and said that could be 66,000 Brits killed. I'm not trying to minimise the threat or the danger from the nutters by any means.
That other poster was me as you well know, and trying to trivialise the threat is exactly what you're doing. The maths is correct and I made it clear the figure was a potential number, which it is, those 3000 could take less or more innocent people to the afterlife with them.

Stop making out that everyone who wants action on this wants all Muslims deported or imprisoned, is a right wing nutbag. Put yourself in the position of that 8 year old girl's parents, how do you think they felt when they heard that the **** who killed their little girl was known to the police, and was on a watch list of 0.1% British Muslims known to harbour ant-west views and fully supports terrorist activities? Now review what you've written and re-write it as if you have more empathy for the victims.

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Old Jun 13th 2017, 5:37 am
  #204  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by stevenglish1
That other poster was me as you well know, and trying to trivialise the threat is exactly what you're doing. The maths is correct and I made it clear the figure was a potential number, which it is, those 3000 could take less or more innocent people to the afterlife with them.

Stop making out that everyone who wants action on this wants all Muslims deported or imprisoned, is a right wing nutbag. Put yourself in the position of that 8 year old girl's parents, how do you think they felt when they heard that the **** who killed their little girl was known to the police, and was on a watch list of 0.1% British Muslims known to harbour ant-west views and fully supports terrorist activities? Now review what you've written and re-write it as if you have more empathy for the victims.
Totally agree with you Steve, except for one thing, the ones to fix this are the ones that the reactionaries have a go at the most after any event.

The everyday vast majority Muslims who are running scared of the cancer in their midst need all the empowering and support that the rest of society can give. They need all the help we can muster.

I dont think it helps anyone for people to pick on dress for instance and separate bathing and Halal etc etc. Oh and Edit, the biggest furphy of the lot.... "Sharia law" what a load of crap people spout about that. FFS the first rule of Sharia is "To obey the laws of the Country you are in" Sharia is just a name given to cultural dispositions and needs to be majorly downgraded as a fear.

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Old Jun 13th 2017, 9:41 am
  #205  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Totally agree with you Steve, except for one thing, the ones to fix this are the ones that the reactionaries have a go at the most after any event.

The everyday vast majority Muslims who are running scared of the cancer in their midst need all the empowering and support that the rest of society can give. They need all the help we can muster.

I dont think it helps anyone for people to pick on dress for instance and separate bathing and Halal etc etc. Oh and Edit, the biggest furphy of the lot.... "Sharia law" what a load of crap people spout about that. FFS the first rule of Sharia is "To obey the laws of the Country you are in" Sharia is just a name given to cultural dispositions and needs to be majorly downgraded as a fear.
If the "vast majority Muslims who are running scared" why are they not protesting outside Mosques and Madrassas that teach hatred and support for terrorists ? Publicly stating aspects that aspects of the Koran, Hadith or Sharia law at variance with commonly accepted British culture are not acceptable to British Muslims- or in reverse as you state, better explain how Islam is to be considered a religion of peace and equality for all whatever gender or religion.
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Old Jun 13th 2017, 10:04 pm
  #206  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Totally agree with you Steve, except for one thing, the ones to fix this are the ones that the reactionaries have a go at the most after any event.

The everyday vast majority Muslims who are running scared of the cancer in their midst need all the empowering and support that the rest of society can give. They need all the help we can muster.

I dont think it helps anyone for people to pick on dress for instance and separate bathing and Halal etc etc. Oh and Edit, the biggest furphy of the lot.... "Sharia law" what a load of crap people spout about that. FFS the first rule of Sharia is "To obey the laws of the Country you are in" Sharia is just a name given to cultural dispositions and needs to be majorly downgraded as a fear.
Yep, and this is why we ALL need protecting from the hate preachers and their beyond help followers, so that moderate Muslims are free to only follow the parts of their ideoligy that aren't total bollocks, like Christians can.

You can't reason with people so twisted by hate, so get rid of them and we can all get along I reckon.

From the looks of it, more and more moderates are growing a set and standing up against the radicals, this should be encouraged and openly supported.
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Old Jun 14th 2017, 3:08 am
  #207  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by morpeth
If the "vast majority Muslims who are running scared" why are they not protesting outside Mosques and Madrassas that teach hatred and support for terrorists ? Publicly stating aspects that aspects of the Koran, Hadith or Sharia law at variance with commonly accepted British culture are not acceptable to British Muslims- or in reverse as you state, better explain how Islam is to be considered a religion of peace and equality for all whatever gender or religion.
It's a long road, and everyone could benefit from a little more understanding of what happens within the Muslim community. The No 1 target of ISIS are Shias they see them as blasphemers. There are also the radicals on the Shia side of course, Hezballah for one, but you can actually negotiate with them. Thing is stick your had up above the parapet within the Muslim community and you really do stand a chance of losing it, literally.

Al Queda and Isis biggest enemies are the liberals within. It's time western people understood this fear and helped Muslims overcome these out of control factions of Sunni fascism.

What I can't get my head around is the US actually helped arm these people in the first place, which from a moderates point of view is like reporting the radicals to corrupt police.
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Old Jun 14th 2017, 3:53 am
  #208  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
It's a long road, and everyone could benefit from a little more understanding of what happens within the Muslim community. The No 1 target of ISIS are Shias they see them as blasphemers. There are also the radicals on the Shia side of course, Hezballah for one, but you can actually negotiate with them. Thing is stick your had up above the parapet within the Muslim community and you really do stand a chance of losing it, literally.

Al Queda and Isis biggest enemies are the liberals within. It's time western people understood this fear and helped Muslims overcome these out of control factions of Sunni fascism.

What I can't get my head around is the US actually helped arm these people in the first place, which from a moderates point of view is like reporting the radicals to corrupt police.
Which events are you referring to?
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Old Jun 14th 2017, 4:13 am
  #209  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by Beoz
Which events are you referring to?
AQ = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allega...sama_bin_Laden

ISIS = 'CIA created ISIS', says Julian Assange as Wikileaks releases Carter Cables III from 1979 | World | News | Express.co.uk


AQ was a product of the Taliban in Afghanistan, when the US was so dead set keen on power over Russia that they would stoop so low as to create a militant islamist facist militia.



ISIS is a longer bow, but it's an offshoot of arming the Saudis.


Find some Iranians or Turks to talk to and they will really fill in the detail.
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Old Jun 14th 2017, 5:23 am
  #210  
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Default Re: Manchester

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
AQ = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allega...sama_bin_Laden

ISIS = 'CIA created ISIS', says Julian Assange as Wikileaks releases Carter Cables III from 1979 | World | News | Express.co.uk


AQ was a product of the Taliban in Afghanistan, when the US was so dead set keen on power over Russia that they would stoop so low as to create a militant islamist facist militia.
Assange is an asshat. End of

The US backed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in order to try and break the Soviet occupation. This worked and partly led to the collapse of the USSR - objective achieved. Problem is that they never followed this up with real policies and aid in order to lift Afghanistan up - and the Taliban filled the vacuum. Big mistake and we are dealing with the consequences today - there are no prefect answers with this

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