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Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Old Mar 1st 2008, 7:37 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

The original poster stated "23% over three years is derisory". That is more than 7.5% per annum. Are you saying this isn't for all teachers?

Mike.
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 7:43 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

See previous post.

The union's demand is for 20% over three years. Go figure what the 23% is all about!
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 7:54 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2

Personally there's no way I'd put up with $70K with a degree, a Masters and two post-grad diplomas. (Hate to put it like this but it is a crappy pay for the qualifications).
Are those the qualifications needed to become a teacher?
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 8:31 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by I_Will_Freckle
Are those the qualifications needed to become a teacher?
No - I've taken a few more but there are many others in a similar position.

For secondary, 'traditionally' you have needed at least a first degree in your subject followed by a post-grad. teaching certificate/diploma.

It's now become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because people of high calibre (i.e. with good A levels or equiv, first degrees from good instituions and higher degrees) were facing relatively poor wages in teaching (compared with what they could get in industry), they stopped going into teaching.

The response of education depts at universities - encouraged by the government - was to lower the entry requirements to teaching qualifications. So now, poorly qualified teachers are beginning to enter the profession. And the public are - perhaps rightly - saying "why should we pay teachers who haven't even passed secondary graduation and can't even spell, $100K"?

The govt encourages this view to save cash and hence even more highly qualified teachers leave.

Like I said in an earlier post - it's a question for society. Teacher's wages can continue to be eroded and the calibre of new entrants to the profession will correspondingly deteriorate - or society can pay more and get all the people who were headed for law school, engineering, medicine and accountancy into schools.
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 11:03 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by ohippy
Well I guess you could have seen that one coming.

Personally, having worked for a union for many years, I am anti strike, there are many, many other ways to get your point across which don't directly affect the ones who are innocent in all this - the kids. If all the teachers worked to rule there would be chaos very quickly, they would have more parent sympathy and something would be done. It doesn't work though unless everyone does it.

There is more than the strike going on though, my daughter has been looking forward to year 7 camp for ages - now cancelled thanks to the union. Her teacher is mad about it, she wants to go to camp, says its part of being a year 7 teacher and they have as much of a ball as the kids but the Unions say no.

Your daughter is in the same position as my son, spent all the summer holidays looking forward to being in year 7 and going to camp only to discover that as most of the teachers involved are union members there wont be any camp, his teacher who is not a union member would take them in a heartbeat and feels they are missing out by not going.

My son has a fantastic teacher this year, really in tune with the kids and is getting more out of my son already than his previous 2 teachers have managed in 2years, he was in school on Thursday, my younger sons teacher who has been teaching for 25+ years and is only going through the motions and seems to spend most of her time shouting at the kids, union member, not at school on Thursday. There was a message from the principal on Wednesday asking people to support the teachers by keeping their kids at school which really annoyed me, we had little choice as we were advised there would be 7% of teachers there so couldn't advise if there would be adequate supervision so couldn't take the chance of sending them in, yet that is seen as supporting the teachers

I agree that teachers pay and conditions need to be addressed but why do the kids have to suffer? Year 7 only happens once and camp is the highlight, innocent victims.......

Another question i have is, WA teachers want to be the highest paid in Australia, does that mean they are the best teachers in the country? Obviously not as in my eyes they are letting our children down.
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 12:14 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by lynnj

I agree that teachers pay and conditions need to be addressed but why do the kids have to suffer? Year 7 only happens once and camp is the highlight, innocent victims....... .
Because kids are the teachers' 'product' - same question put to a worker in a Heinz factory - "why should the tin of baked beans suffer"?
Originally Posted by lynnj
Another question i have is, WA teachers want to be the highest paid in Australia, does that mean they are the best teachers in the country? .
This statement was cringeworthy - a truly dreadful thing to say. I can't defend this - it was inappropriate, childish and amateur on behalf of the union..
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 1:00 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
Because kids are the teachers' 'product' - same question put to a worker in a Heinz factory - "why should the tin of baked beans suffer"?
This is exactly why teachers and nurses will never command more than average salaries. These are vocations, not mere jobs.
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 2:32 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by markallwood
These are vocations, not mere jobs.
That's what some governments like to think.

Thankfully, some govts don't think that - nor do many private schools. Unfortunately for Australian teachers, progressive views like this tend to exist in Europe not here.
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Old Mar 1st 2008, 5:06 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
That's what some governments like to think.

Thankfully, some govts don't think that - nor do many private schools. Unfortunately for Australian teachers, progressive views like this tend to exist in Europe not here.
well, public v private schooling is a seperate issue entirely. Isn't this thread about WA state school teachers who want more pay?
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Old Mar 2nd 2008, 1:11 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by markallwood
well, public v private schooling is a seperate issue entirely. Isn't this thread about WA state school teachers who want more pay?
My point wasn't about public vs private schooling. It was about different attitudes to teachers as employees - specifically how private schools treat teachers (which still has massive variance within the sector) and how many European countries treat their teachers......and how Australia and particularly WA, treats its teachers.
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Old Mar 2nd 2008, 1:27 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
My point wasn't about public vs private schooling. It was about different attitudes to teachers as employees - specifically how private schools treat teachers (which still has massive variance within the sector) and how many European countries treat their teachers......and how Australia and particularly WA, treats its teachers.
Sorry - I am still confused. Are you a teacher NKSK?
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Old Mar 2nd 2008, 1:47 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Originally Posted by I_Will_Freckle
Sorry - I am still confused. Are you a teacher NKSK?
Yep
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Old Mar 2nd 2008, 2:39 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Lost all sympathy for teachers (WA)

Hubbies school got in supply teachers to cater for anyone who turned up.

However the pay rise is much needed, salary for a teacher here is rubbish compared to other careers in OZ.

Usually pay is starting at about $44K and goes to about $65K. Then if you want to go up to around $70K you have to do senior teacher or level 3 status (this will need assessment and maybe course).

Sorry but WA teachers desperately need better pay, especially if they are going to keep teachers and recruit more in the future.

Gems.
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