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Leaving huge debt in UK

Leaving huge debt in UK

Old Aug 29th 2010, 12:33 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts
If you truly think that somebody lending you something is the same as them giving it to you then Benhila nor anybody else is going to be able to help you understand what stealing is or the difference between right or wrong. You are a lost cause.
Heres another one on the moral soapbox....


Define stealing for me bermudashorts
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 12:42 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by perksy
This is the kind of half witted post that stopped me posting on the debt topics.

Right...

Say I want to borrow $100... You WILLINGLY lend it to me. And I agree to pay it back but dont, is that stealing? No it isnt as you gave it to me in the first place. Its your bad judgement and fault that you GAVE me $100 in the first place.
Surely it's Fraud....which of course is a crime, same as stealing, for all intensive purposes
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 12:45 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by >Trigger<
Surely it's Fraud....which of course is a crime, same as stealing, for all intensive purposes
How is it fraud if I borrow $100 but can't afford to pay it back?

I may have been able to afford to pay back the $100 when the transaction took place but my circumstances are different now and I can't afford it.

Prove its fraud...
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 12:51 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by perksy
How is it fraud if I borrow $100 but can't afford to pay it back?

I may have been able to afford to pay back the $100 when the transaction took place but my circumstances are different now and I can't afford it.

Prove its fraud...
just out of curiosity..what crime would you call it?
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 12:58 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by >Trigger<
just out of curiosity..what crime would you call it?
It isn't a crime to not pay back a debt.

It is a crime to take out a debt with the intention of not paying it back.

Therefore in the theoretical example if I borrowed $100 from benhila with the intention of paying back but didnt because my circumstances changed. No crime has taken place. Benhila should've done his research on me as to wether I was a good or bad debtor. Unlucky.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 1:57 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts
We lived in Bermuda for two years between 2006 and 2008. When we left there were a couple of unpaid utilities and I think a month on a mobile phone contract or something, nothing deliberate just oversights and very small amounts, about £50 on average. One company traced my father in law and started pestering him. I cannot imagine how they managed to trace my father in law, anyway once they did we just paid up to avoid him being harrassed any more.

Two years later we returned to the UK. To a different address, a different area and I was even using a different name. I started to use my married name when I went to Bermuda for the very first time and when I retuned to the UK I continued to use it. I had never used my married name in UK before. Within about 6 months one of the utility companies sent me a bill to my new address in my maiden name. Two years after I returned to the UK another one did, for £35, this debt was now over 4 years old.

So the moral is do not underestimate the ability of companies to track you down, they don't give up on even small items never mind big ones. To get away with what you are considering, you would certainly have to be quite sure that you will not return to the UK within about 6 years.

And many people care about their credit rating by the way, it is quite handy to have a good one.
Quite simple. Don't register on the electoral roll. This is how these debt agencies find you.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:07 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by perksy
This is the kind of half witted post that stopped me posting on the debt topics.

Right...

Say I want to borrow $100... You WILLINGLY lend it to me. And I agree to pay it back but dont, is that stealing? No it isnt as you gave it to me in the first place. Its your bad judgement and fault that you GAVE me $100 in the first place.

However if I went into your wallet and took two crisp 50's without your permissision then is that stealing? I think you'll find it is.

Over to you Benhila, define stealing for me....
I think most people would agree that you are legally correct. Very few would agree with the morality of your stance though.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:12 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus
I think most people would agree that you are legally correct. Very few would agree with the morality of your stance though.
Morality is a philosophical argument.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:12 am
  #54  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Ok here goes my ten penny
When I took out my business mortgage (for a 1,000,000) I had of course
Ever intention of paying which I have and currently still do but at some future
Point unless the business sells it will eventually become a non viable business and will be shut down due to the uk governments policy on making your elderly population stay at home on their own for 23 hours a day with an hours support even if these people can't even get out of bed or make a cup of tea for themselves let alone get to a toilet.
So at some point through no fault of mine I will owe a considerable amount
I didn't steal it, it was lent with every intention of paying back and at some point I won't pay it back
So am I a criminal benhila no I didn't demand it at gunpoint or commit fraud
I'm in a position where I DONT want to be, I would rather pay it back and I hope that it sells so I don't have to be chased but if they chase me I have nothing to give , I'm in Australia working full time as a nurse yes hopefully will manage on 1 wage and lead a less stressed lifestyle until the shit hits the fan of course back in the uk.
Enough of my soapbox would be interested to know what crimes benhila And Bermuda think I have committed !!!!
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:26 am
  #55  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by perksy
Heres another one on the moral soapbox....


Define stealing for me bermudashorts
Buy a dictionary. I am not going to be set challenges by you and I am not particularly interested in this debate, it has been done to death already. My post was simply to point out that most people do not consider "lending" to be the same as "giving".
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:31 am
  #56  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by sean bassett
Ok here goes my ten penny
When I took out my business mortgage (for a 1,000,000) I had of course
Ever intention of paying which I have and currently still do but at some future
Point unless the business sells it will eventually become a non viable business and will be shut down due to the uk governments policy on making your elderly population stay at home on their own for 23 hours a day with an hours support even if these people can't even get out of bed or make a cup of tea for themselves let alone get to a toilet.
So at some point through no fault of mine I will owe a considerable amount
I didn't steal it, it was lent with every intention of paying back and at some point I won't pay it back
So am I a criminal benhila no I didn't demand it at gunpoint or commit fraud
I'm in a position where I DONT want to be, I would rather pay it back and I hope that it sells so I don't have to be chased but if they chase me I have nothing to give , I'm in Australia working full time as a nurse yes hopefully will manage on 1 wage and lead a less stressed lifestyle until the shit hits the fan of course back in the uk.
Enough of my soapbox would be interested to know what crimes benhila And Bermuda think I have committed !!!!
Sean basset - I haven't actually made any comments about stealing and commiting crimes on this thread have I? I have just pointed out that lending and giving are not the same thing, as Pesky seemed confused about the difference.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:35 am
  #57  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by Deancm_MKII
Quite simple. Don't register on the electoral roll. This is how these debt agencies find you.
Well I quite like being on the electoral roll, having the right to vote, being a member of society and all that. And you have perhaps misread my ppost entirely if you think I was somehow on the run because of a £35 utility bill.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 2:53 am
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by Shot81
i have about 2.5k with Egg and about 3k with Virgin credit card, thinking of paying it for a few months and then cancel the DD from my hsbc account...
but not sure if i could get away with it.
what to you guys think ? dont want it to bite me on my arse in a few years time!
Just for the record, I was responding to Shot81; every person has his/her own set of circumstances to deal with the best they can.

Intention is relevant from a legal point of view. If you kill someone in a car accident you are penalised on a different scale than if you commit murder intentionally. Still, this doesn't make the unintentional killing 'right'. If you borrowed from me a $100 and then your circumstances changed, I will fully expect you to return the money once your circumstances change again. It is your responsibility to repay the debt if and when you are able to do so. Hiding behind being 'a victim of the system or of circumstances' is not that attractive in my books.
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 3:14 am
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

I'm not hiding behind any system or circumstances , and I don't consider myself a victim either, the victims are the 20 elderly people who will have to find another nursing home and the 32 excellent staff thar are employed to look after them , you may want your 100 back but u don't live in a perfect world where we all live happily ever after, and nor am I interested in appealing to u in an attractive way,
I merely posted as to show that circumstances on debt aren't always as black and white as you seem to make them !!

QUOTE=benhila;8810175]Just for the record, I was responding to Shot81; every person has his/her own set of circumstances to deal with the best they can.

Intention is relevant from a legal point of view. If you kill someone in a car accident you are penalised on a different scale than if you commit murder intentionally. Still, this doesn't make the unintentional killing 'right'. If you borrowed from me a $100 and then your circumstances changed, I will fully expect you to return the money once your circumstances change again. It is your responsibility to repay the debt if and when you are able to do so. Hiding behind being 'a victim of the system or of circumstances' is not that attractive in my books.[/QUOTE]
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Old Aug 29th 2010, 3:43 am
  #60  
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Default Re: Leaving huge debt in UK

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts
And you have perhaps misread my ppost entirely if you think I was somehow on the run because of a £35 utility bill.
I wasn't suggesting that at all. Merely pointing out the debt collection agencies find people via the electoral roll.
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