scot47

Ther first and second seem to have disappeared but the Bogan remains. Or does it ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrikin

It is LARRIKIN with a double "r"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan

Gordon Barlow

First, let me say that I think Wikipedia has got the origin of "ocker" wrong. I've heard several Liverpudlians use the term "acker" as a substitute for "mate" - and there was (years ago) a famous jazz musician who called himself "Mister Acker Bilk". Wikipedia itself gives the origin of his nickname to Somerset folk-talk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acker_Bilk

When I was growing up. "ocker" was was a derogatory term for what I would call now a "yob". My mother preferred the term "too-right", because she reckoned that only the dregs of society used that term of agreement. "Hot enough for you today, Bluey?" "Ohh, too right, missus!"
"Larrikin" had pretty much gone out of fashion in my day (meaning the '40s & '50s; I was born in 1939), and was used as a term of affection as much as anything. "Bogan" is quite recent. It seems to have replaced "ocker", and has the same connotation, as far as I can tell.

scrubbedexpat019

'Larrikin' was very much in use when I migrated to Oz in the '70s and remained popular into the '80s, but then seemed to vanish from the Ozzie lexicon. I always took it to mean "lovable bad boy" and it was often used to more or less excuse behavior now regarded as borderline antisocial and boorish or downright stupid. A sort of term of endearment or guarded admiration as it enabled one to praise and express mild disapproval at the same time.

'Ocker' was regarded as basically an English term transported to the Antipodes at some time in the 1950s, but it's probably much older. One of many English terms in use in the 1970s but no longer heard. A popular saying in Sydney in the mid-'70s was "when an ocker buys a color TV set, they start voting Liberal". A few choice American slang words were in use (at least in Sydney where I lived from 1976 to 1985), notably '*****wit', the origins of which I'm told was either New York or California street slang. No-one can be too sure and several explanations have been suggested.

The latest, 'bogan', surfaced in the mid to late 1990s or I may have my timing wrong and it is more recent ie early 21st century. There is a town called Bogan in rural New South Wales where (so I'm told) the term is regarded locally as highly sensitive and one risks social disapproval (or s fist fight if in the local pubs) if spoken in the wrong company at the wrong time.

Curious expressions surface Down Under every now and then. Some when misused can be amusing. A few years ago I was at an academic party at the University of Melbourne where an American (woman) lecturer was relating stories about her first year in Australia. She was describing a detailed conversation she'd had with another academic (I suspect he was a romantic interest) where something unexpected was said, about which she made the comment, "I was so shocked, I just stood there rooted to the spot". This was greeted by silence and one or two wry smiles. Very much a double meaning depending on where and in which circumstances in the world you use the term.

A colleague (fellow architect in Melbourne) who stayed unattached well into his forties, used to regale us in the office on Mondays with his weekend romantic adventures and often (mis)used the expression, "heart rendering" which I thought extremely funny but all my Aussie colleagues completely missed the humor in it.

"Spit the dummy" was another then popular expression now no longer heard. Very Aussie bush, I think.

Apologies to have digressed somewhat from the original terms in this thread, but Australia is very much a place where unusual (and sometimes outright odd) expressions find new homes and meanings.

One more (last) aside. Gordon Barlow mentioned Acker Bilk, who was very much in the Sixties What's It All About Alfie?? mode and popular with the Aussie suburban RSL Club set in that strange world Down Under in the '60s and '70s. He toured the clubs down here a few times but I somehow missed out. I recall he dropped off the charts in the '80s. His music has now completely vanished from the popular scene. From Somerset but I recall we all thought he was Jewish.

Those interested in words in popular use past and present will enjoy https://www.urbandictionary.com.

Gordon Barlow

A nice post, JDW. It's interesting about "bogan". Here's Wikipedia's relevant entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bogan

The Oz use of "root" is I would guess just a variation of "rut". There was a story of a rugby team visiting the US who were greeted at Los Angeles airport by a bunch of cheerleaders who, when asked what they were doing there, said "We're here to root for you!" Which must have generated a bit of excitement in the team for a little while. And maybe for more than a little while - who knows? Lucky for them they weren't rooted to (on) the spot.

I don't recall "spit the dummy". Maybe it never reached Queensland; it sounds a bit Sydney-ish to me. What do you reckon?

The Bloke

It was usually called a “dummy spit” or someone “spat the dummy”.

scot47

ACKER - see this extract from Wikip[edia - "[color=#222222]Bilk was born in Pensford, Somerset, in 1929.He earned the nickname "Acker" from the Somerset slang for "friend" or "mate". His parents tried to teach him the piano but, as a boy, Bilk found it restricted his love of outdoor activities, including football. He lost two front teeth in a school fight and half a finger in a sledging accident, both of which he said affected his eventual clarinet style."

BadgeIsBack

Spit the dummy was used in UK mil circles, also 'throw teddy in the corner'.

Many AU sayings have UK equivalents, I sometimes think many Brit expats are quite sheltered.

Bogan, I believe was originally quite specific, sort of Sydney Westie, but now it is a generic description for any one who basically lacks any education, culture or sophistication. With cashed up bogan becoming a thing more recently since the 2000s boom.

Gordon Barlow

"Larrikin" had pretty much gone out of fashion in my day (meaning the '40s & '50s; I was born in 1939), and was used as a term of affection as much as anything.
The above sentence is from my Post #2, above. I've been trying to think what other term we used to use, and have only just now remembered. Not quite synonymous with "larrikin", but more in the modern sense of "cool", though it was a coarse word. We would call a man of our (young) age, "a bit of a dag", as much a term of grudging admiration as anything. Does anybody else remember that?

Gordon Barlow

And many AU sayings actually originated in the UK. I once read that "dinkum" - as in "fair dinkum" - was used in parts of Yorkshire, in days gone past.

Talking to my son today (he lives in Norway, and I had miscalculated the time difference), I told him he sounded what in English-English might have been "out of sorts" - but instead I dragged an old Oz expression from the depths of my memory and said "You sound fed up, f***ed up, and far from home". I'd be interested to know if that has an English-English origin.

abner

So, I'll offer a take on how "bogan", "ocker" and "larrikin" *seem* to be used in everyday Australian from the perspective of a recent immigrant (well, 15 years or so, across two different states), quite apart from any formal definition of those terms.

- A "'bogan" is an an ill-educated hick with poor manners, or someone who (from whatever background) chooses to act like one
- "Ocker" is a rural Austrian accent, often readily dropped when urbanites are present, and sometimes mocked by those urbanites. (Similar to Canadian use of the "hoser" accent.)
- "Larrikin": I can't recall actually hearing the term come up in any conversation with a native-born Australian, and until I googled it for this post, had always thought it was an Irish term.

abner

Not sure how I missed it, but "Austrian" should have been "Australian" in the above post.

Though it would certainly be more amusing if everyone in the outback sounded like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Gordon Barlow

I recall using "yobbo" in my youth, too, as a synonym of "larrikin". The English version was "yob", without the standard Australian suffix "-o". Still is, I guess.

Gordon Barlow

And as a classic put-down, the expression "you're/he's as useless as a cupful of cold water" - the polite version of the coarser "... c***ful of cold water". Is that still doing the rounds?

moneypenny20

No. Neither make sense. A cupful of cold water is extremely useful to someone who needs water and body temp doesn't allow for fluids inside a body to be cold.

Gordon Barlow

I didn't say it made sense, Miss Moneypenny. I said it was a coarse slang term back in the day - and indeed it was. End of.