Jobs - wage and conditions differences UK V Aus.
Sep 19th 2016, 12:49 pm
#91
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
You are the sort who would begrudge public servants even increases to keep pace with inflation (whilst top management increases on average in the UK are 5 times the rate of inflation) and you sneer at those who provide public service so it's perfectly understandable that you would not see a case for above inflation increases for public servants (to bring them more into line with similar jobs). We know your position and if anyone states a contrary view you 'cannae see' so what's the point, you just say if you don't like it get a job in the private sector. Out of interest (for someone who denigrates public sector workers), did you go to a state school, have you been in an NHS hospital, used public transport, public utilities, public roads etc?
As you like interesting articles have a read at this one - 1% pay rise for heaven's sake!!!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...sector-workers
As you like interesting articles have a read at this one - 1% pay rise for heaven's sake!!!
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...sector-workers
Current UK total public debt (2016): GBP1.6 trillion (83% of GDP)
Current UK public deficit (2016): GBP56 billion
Current UK annual interest payments on above: about GBP43 billion
I know you and the Guardian want to believe socialist fairy tales rather than reality but those figures are what they are - and they are partly this high because the UK has employed too many civil servants and paid them too much. They can have a pay rise when the debt is gone. The other option is that they get a pay rise but passenger (aka civil servant) numbers get drastically cut. Either way, the taxpayer and country would be the winners
Hope this helps
Sep 19th 2016, 1:49 pm
#92
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
Some reality:
Current UK total public debt (2016): GBP1.6 trillion (83% of GDP)
Current UK public deficit (2016): GBP56 billion
Current UK annual interest payments on above: about GBP43 billion
I know you and the Guardian want to believe socialist fairy tales rather than reality but those figures are what they are - and they are partly this high because the UK has employed too many civil servants and paid them too much. They can have a pay rise when the debt is gone. The other option is that they get a pay rise but passenger (aka civil servant) numbers get drastically cut. Either way, the taxpayer and country would be the winners
Hope this helps
Current UK total public debt (2016): GBP1.6 trillion (83% of GDP)
Current UK public deficit (2016): GBP56 billion
Current UK annual interest payments on above: about GBP43 billion
I know you and the Guardian want to believe socialist fairy tales rather than reality but those figures are what they are - and they are partly this high because the UK has employed too many civil servants and paid them too much. They can have a pay rise when the debt is gone. The other option is that they get a pay rise but passenger (aka civil servant) numbers get drastically cut. Either way, the taxpayer and country would be the winners
Hope this helps
Margaret Thatcher came in in 1979, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s. In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83 percent to 60 percent and the basic rate from 33 percent to 30 percent. The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets, to 29 percent in the 1986 budget, 27 percent in 1987 and to 25 percent in 1988. The top rate of income tax was cut to 40 percent in the 1988 budget.
Corporation tax was 52% in 1982, is 20% today.
You don't need to be Einstein to work out that direct taxes on personal and company incomes have been slashed and the government revenue coffers are much lower than they would have been without the tax cuts. You say of course that anyone who works in the public sector should put up with low salaries and no/little increases so those who are better off can have more disposable income. How about less drastic pruning of top rate and corporation tax to fund public sector workers?
Sep 19th 2016, 1:56 pm
#93
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
Plus they get front row seats in the whole scenario, this doesn't just affect them but their work colleagues as well, as if could have been them. It's a lot like an active army unit in that regard. This fact alone sets them apart from every other worker on the tube system. Flash back, PTSD inducing work related issues.... It takes a certain type of person. Sounds from your statement that you could do it Badge...not everyone thinks like you on this issue. I know I couldn't. In fact one of my mates, does forensic cleaning....IE: cleaning up after suicides, prison cells, prison vans, deaths in houses that haven't been discovered for days or weeks and meth labs etc etc. Offered me a job post, post .... I declined because I know I wouldn't cope.
A completely different ball game to Bus or Lorry drivers as it will definitely absolutely happen to one of their number over a given period of time.
A completely different ball game to Bus or Lorry drivers as it will definitely absolutely happen to one of their number over a given period of time.
The man who cleans up blood after murders - BBC News
Sep 19th 2016, 2:35 pm
#94
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
Australia is expensive but it is a sign of a successful economy - poverty is not a big issue - despite what certain sectors of the media would have us believe
High prices are a byproduct of good economic performance. You see this all over the world - look at Norway. Other countries can have average or low economic performance with relatively high prices - New Zealand (and others but no names as I don't want to fight a shit storm)
I know this doesn't fit in with the viewpoint of your average BE JAWP with an axe to grind but there it is
High prices are a byproduct of good economic performance. You see this all over the world - look at Norway. Other countries can have average or low economic performance with relatively high prices - New Zealand (and others but no names as I don't want to fight a shit storm)
I know this doesn't fit in with the viewpoint of your average BE JAWP with an axe to grind but there it is
On the above - and I totally agree - why are there people who move from Aus to NZ? Given that wages are generally lower and the cost-of-living is slightly higher in NZ
Anyone fancy a swap?
On the topic of train/tube drivers, yes they are paid a high salary for the work and hours that they do, but after going through an application process recently, the selection/testing phase is harder than that of the police and fire service.
My ex is a Police Officer and, bless her, while she's a good PC she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. There is no way she would get passed the first phase of a train/tube driver application. Train driver recruitment is one of the toughest out there because of the high concentration levels/repetitive nature/risk/responsibility - they're only allowed to work a maximum of 9-hour shifts for 4 on-3 off in UK, I believe?
I also have a friend who's a railway engineer for Network Rail and they take full advantage of the system like has been stated. Last year they went on strike because they 'only' got offered a 4% pay rise... Jesus wept
Sep 19th 2016, 8:38 pm
#95
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
PS have you given up attacking CEO's then? The very people responsible for the growth of your pension? Those who get pay cuts or fired when your pension doesn't perform.
Last edited by Beoz; Sep 19th 2016 at 8:56 pm.
Sep 20th 2016, 1:38 am
#96
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
You don't see a link between debt levels and the massive reductions in top rate income tax and corporation tax?
Margaret Thatcher came in in 1979, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s. In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83 percent to 60 percent and the basic rate from 33 percent to 30 percent. The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets, to 29 percent in the 1986 budget, 27 percent in 1987 and to 25 percent in 1988. The top rate of income tax was cut to 40 percent in the 1988 budget.
Corporation tax was 52% in 1982, is 20% today.
You don't need to be Einstein to work out that direct taxes on personal and company incomes have been slashed and the government revenue coffers are much lower than they would have been without the tax cuts. You say of course that anyone who works in the public sector should put up with low salaries and no/little increases so those who are better off can have more disposable income. How about less drastic pruning of top rate and corporation tax to fund public sector workers?
Margaret Thatcher came in in 1979, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s. In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83 percent to 60 percent and the basic rate from 33 percent to 30 percent. The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets, to 29 percent in the 1986 budget, 27 percent in 1987 and to 25 percent in 1988. The top rate of income tax was cut to 40 percent in the 1988 budget.
Corporation tax was 52% in 1982, is 20% today.
You don't need to be Einstein to work out that direct taxes on personal and company incomes have been slashed and the government revenue coffers are much lower than they would have been without the tax cuts. You say of course that anyone who works in the public sector should put up with low salaries and no/little increases so those who are better off can have more disposable income. How about less drastic pruning of top rate and corporation tax to fund public sector workers?
No wonder the UK was is in sustained and structural decline before Mrs T too over with tax rates like that. Fortunately for that nation, she turned things around and saved their asses
If you think 80% personal tax rates and 52% corporation tax are conducive to economic investment and growth you've got rocks in your head. There is no way that the UK would have had the inward investment that it has had over the last couple of decades with 52% company tax
Reducing tax rates may have had some effect on overall government debt but the real killers have been over generous, cradle to the grave welfare, state pensions, red tape, unnecessary subsidies and employing too many civil servants on salary and benefit packages that have been too high
UK is reaping what they have sown
Sep 20th 2016, 2:12 am
#97
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
Sep 20th 2016, 9:47 am
#98
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
Wow - more one dimensional analysis from teach
No wonder the UK was is in sustained and structural decline before Mrs T too over with tax rates like that. Fortunately for that nation, she turned things around and saved their asses
If you think 80% personal tax rates and 52% corporation tax are conducive to economic investment and growth you've got rocks in your head. There is no way that the UK would have had the inward investment that it has had over the last couple of decades with 52% company tax
Reducing tax rates may have had some effect on overall government debt but the real killers have been over generous, cradle to the grave welfare, state pensions, red tape, unnecessary subsidies and employing too many civil servants on salary and benefit packages that have been too high
UK is reaping what they have sown
No wonder the UK was is in sustained and structural decline before Mrs T too over with tax rates like that. Fortunately for that nation, she turned things around and saved their asses
If you think 80% personal tax rates and 52% corporation tax are conducive to economic investment and growth you've got rocks in your head. There is no way that the UK would have had the inward investment that it has had over the last couple of decades with 52% company tax
Reducing tax rates may have had some effect on overall government debt but the real killers have been over generous, cradle to the grave welfare, state pensions, red tape, unnecessary subsidies and employing too many civil servants on salary and benefit packages that have been too high
UK is reaping what they have sown
The right wing strategy is always to make themselves as better off as they can, take away a lot of the power of those who are lesser paid and not in a position to give themselves pay rises and then denigrate them as lazy, only in the public sector, undeserving, placard carrying etc. If you don't see that there's little point in hitting one's head up against a brick wall don't you think?
Sep 20th 2016, 9:48 am
#99
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
So you are suggesting that everyone left the UK and the last person turned off the lights pre Thatcher?
Sep 20th 2016, 9:51 am
#100
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
On the topic of train/tube drivers, yes they are paid a high salary for the work and hours that they do, but after going through an application process recently, the selection/testing phase is harder than that of the police and fire service.
My ex is a Police Officer and, bless her, while she's a good PC she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. There is no way she would get passed the first phase of a train/tube driver application. Train driver recruitment is one of the toughest out there because of the high concentration levels/repetitive nature/risk/responsibility - they're only allowed to work a maximum of 9-hour shifts for 4 on-3 off in UK, I believe?
I also have a friend who's a railway engineer for Network Rail and they take full advantage of the system like has been stated. Last year they went on strike because they 'only' got offered a 4% pay rise... Jesus wept
Plus they get front row seats in the whole scenario, this doesn't just affect them but their work colleagues as well, as if could have been them. It's a lot like an active army unit in that regard. This fact alone sets them apart from every other worker on the tube system. Flash back, PTSD inducing work related issues.... It takes a certain type of person. Sounds from your statement that you could do it Badge...not everyone thinks like you on this issue. I know I couldn't. In fact one of my mates, does forensic cleaning....IE: cleaning up after suicides, prison cells, prison vans, deaths in houses that haven't been discovered for days or weeks and meth labs etc etc. Offered me a job post, post .... I declined because I know I wouldn't cope.
A completely different ball game to Bus or Lorry drivers as it will definitely absolutely happen to one of their number over a given period of time.
A completely different ball game to Bus or Lorry drivers as it will definitely absolutely happen to one of their number over a given period of time.
I am guessing that on Day 1 of the course, a snr Tube driver type, soon to be retired, will stand up to address the course who are getting that nice glow you get when you are about to embark on a new training programme - that esprit d'corps...
...bet the 'Old Sweat' will talk a bit about the jumpers and tell all assembled that they can expect to deal with it....but of course, they're thinking of the coin.
Yes, that person jumped. But the death is caused by them being struck by the train.
Most peer support staff with whom I have had dealings say/write that the incident will be recalled by the driver as 'having killed someone' - same in the case of bus drivers, driversof other trains, and car/truck drivers.
As for knowing its possible - so do you when you drive your car every day. I doubt it is in the forefront of your mind though.
Most peer support staff with whom I have had dealings say/write that the incident will be recalled by the driver as 'having killed someone' - same in the case of bus drivers, driversof other trains, and car/truck drivers.
As for knowing its possible - so do you when you drive your car every day. I doubt it is in the forefront of your mind though.
Are you saying that the investigators attribute death to the driver having killed someone - that's a bit mean. If the drivers give themselves a hard time then they shouldn't. In many cases it would happen so quickly. Probably far worse for the cops and firies. I'm sure the drivers get taken away from the immediate scene very quickly - it's not as if they have to get out the dustpan and brush and binbags from the back of their cab. It would all be done for them and all they need to do is talk to the cops, do the paperwork and of course, maintain the scene, in fact the investigators would want to ensure they are not tampering with evidence like a misplaced copy of 'The Mirror' snagged under the Dead Man's handle..
I often remind myself I am driving a ton and a half of metal when on the roads.
As hard to get on to the course, as a Tube Driver surely. in the old days, part of the King (or Queen) Common Royalty Syllabus was devoted to leading Your Army In The Field. Several weeks worth, at least. Addressing The Men. Leading A Charge. Talking about how Your Heart Is Strong, Even Though The Body Is Weak (etc). Case studies in Hastings, Agincourt and the Armada.
Now I hear most of that has been condensed to ceremonial duties (down to several days) and that the Social Media component is now most of the course.
Cheers
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Sep 20th 2016 at 9:54 am.
Sep 20th 2016, 10:30 am
#101
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
Off at a tangent as usual. My point was that income taxation has been cut TOO MUCH and this is why there isn't the government revenue to pay decent salaries and at least inflationary increases. Decent cuts in top rate and basic rate tax were called for - they've gone too far and of course no party can now suggest putting income taxes up so indirect taxes go up more and they aren't based on ability to pay.
The right wing strategy is always to make themselves as better off as they can, take away a lot of the power of those who are lesser paid and not in a position to give themselves pay rises and then denigrate them as lazy, only in the public sector, undeserving, placard carrying etc. If you don't see that there's little point in hitting one's head up against a brick wall don't you think?
The right wing strategy is always to make themselves as better off as they can, take away a lot of the power of those who are lesser paid and not in a position to give themselves pay rises and then denigrate them as lazy, only in the public sector, undeserving, placard carrying etc. If you don't see that there's little point in hitting one's head up against a brick wall don't you think?
Remember what David Cameron said upon being elected. "We will help those who help themselves but we will also help those who cannot help themselves"
No point calling the resentful card if you are neither of the above.
Sep 20th 2016, 11:44 am
#102
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
This is actually a very insightful thread and I've enjoyed reading the posts so far (I'm not joking)
On the above - and I totally agree - why are there people who move from Aus to NZ? Given that wages are generally lower and the cost-of-living is slightly higher in NZ
Anyone fancy a swap?
On the topic of train/tube drivers, yes they are paid a high salary for the work and hours that they do, but after going through an application process recently, the selection/testing phase is harder than that of the police and fire service.
My ex is a Police Officer and, bless her, while she's a good PC she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. There is no way she would get passed the first phase of a train/tube driver application. Train driver recruitment is one of the toughest out there because of the high concentration levels/repetitive nature/risk/responsibility - they're only allowed to work a maximum of 9-hour shifts for 4 on-3 off in UK, I believe?
I also have a friend who's a railway engineer for Network Rail and they take full advantage of the system like has been stated. Last year they went on strike because they 'only' got offered a 4% pay rise... Jesus wept
On the above - and I totally agree - why are there people who move from Aus to NZ? Given that wages are generally lower and the cost-of-living is slightly higher in NZ
Anyone fancy a swap?
On the topic of train/tube drivers, yes they are paid a high salary for the work and hours that they do, but after going through an application process recently, the selection/testing phase is harder than that of the police and fire service.
My ex is a Police Officer and, bless her, while she's a good PC she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. There is no way she would get passed the first phase of a train/tube driver application. Train driver recruitment is one of the toughest out there because of the high concentration levels/repetitive nature/risk/responsibility - they're only allowed to work a maximum of 9-hour shifts for 4 on-3 off in UK, I believe?
I also have a friend who's a railway engineer for Network Rail and they take full advantage of the system like has been stated. Last year they went on strike because they 'only' got offered a 4% pay rise... Jesus wept
Can't say I would fancy 9 hour shifts in a tube train cab, that is one heck of an ask when it comes to alertness.
Sep 20th 2016, 11:45 am
#103
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
In bold, that statement applies to whatever political spectrum you are from. Do you not make yourself as better of as you can? Do you not invest your super or pension in companies that are going to be the most successful and wealthiest? Of course you do. As a teacher, you have a few choices. Work for the government where you salary is not going to vary much, or do something else where you have a better chance of earning more. If you choose to work for the government, you know the financial downsides, but that's your choice.
Remember what David Cameron said upon being elected. "We will help those who help themselves but we will also help those who cannot help themselves"
No point calling the resentful card if you are neither of the above.
Remember what David Cameron said upon being elected. "We will help those who help themselves but we will also help those who cannot help themselves"
No point calling the resentful card if you are neither of the above.
You've given me one too many lectures on what I should have done son. FYI we own our property in Scotland and we own our property in Melbourne and we have no mortgage and we have savings. I've had an extremely satisfying career teaching others and I've given countless hours of voluntary work back to my local community through free tennis coaching and administration of club, district, county and country.
I know you find it difficult to think of anyone but number one but we're very comfortably off due to our own efforts thank you and my comments are not usually directed to my own circumstances but to the bigger picture of fellow teachers, health workers and society at large.
When a society places too low a value on education and health in particular it suffers in the long run. If we place too high a value on those who make widgets and sneer at those who educate the masses and keep them healthy then imho that's not right.
Over to you for your anticipated sneers.
Sep 20th 2016, 12:24 pm
#104
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
You don't pay attention at all do you? I've said numerous times that I live and work in Scotland (and visit Australia every year) and when I went into teaching here they had a final salary pension scheme (which was closed to new entrants in the Cameron years) so why would I have Super or a private pension scheme? I've contributed 9% of my salary, matched by 6% from my employer all my working life to a FS scheme and paid all my taxes without any tax avoidance.
You've given me one too many lectures on what I should have done son. FYI we own our property in Scotland and we own our property in Melbourne and we have no mortgage and we have savings. I've had an extremely satisfying career teaching others and I've given countless hours of voluntary work back to my local community through free tennis coaching and administration of club, district, county and country.
I know you find it difficult to think of anyone but number one but we're very comfortably off due to our own efforts thank you and my comments are not usually directed to my own circumstances but to the bigger picture of fellow teachers, health workers and society at large.
When a society places too low a value on education and health in particular it suffers in the long run. If we place too high a value on those who make widgets and sneer at those who educate the masses and keep them healthy then imho that's not right.
Over to you for your anticipated sneers.
You've given me one too many lectures on what I should have done son. FYI we own our property in Scotland and we own our property in Melbourne and we have no mortgage and we have savings. I've had an extremely satisfying career teaching others and I've given countless hours of voluntary work back to my local community through free tennis coaching and administration of club, district, county and country.
I know you find it difficult to think of anyone but number one but we're very comfortably off due to our own efforts thank you and my comments are not usually directed to my own circumstances but to the bigger picture of fellow teachers, health workers and society at large.
When a society places too low a value on education and health in particular it suffers in the long run. If we place too high a value on those who make widgets and sneer at those who educate the masses and keep them healthy then imho that's not right.
Over to you for your anticipated sneers.
Perhaps you shouldn't believe everything you read in those links you post. Not all CEO's are bad, not all CEO's claim pay rises, not all CEO's sit back on a beach watching it all roll in and even if they did, who cares.
Sep 20th 2016, 12:32 pm
#105
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Re: Its annoying my salary for my profession is not great compared to other salaries
And in return its not right to put blanket accusations across CEO's just because they have more money than you.
Perhaps you shouldn't believe everything you read in those links you post. Not all CEO's are bad, not all CEO's claim pay rises, not all CEO's sit back on a beach watching it all roll in and even if they did, who cares.
Perhaps you shouldn't believe everything you read in those links you post. Not all CEO's are bad, not all CEO's claim pay rises, not all CEO's sit back on a beach watching it all roll in and even if they did, who cares.
I'm not comparing a CEO to me clown. Do you think 112 times a tube driver or say 175 times a teacher is justified and then they get 5 times the rate of inflation rises when let's be honest, businesses are not performing that well? (note I'm not suggesting they don't deserve a healthy income, it's the size of the differential).
Agreed on the beaches, the CEO's spend a lot of time at the golf club and in corporate bungs at sporting events.
