Israel Palestinian

Old Nov 14th 2023, 9:48 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl
I find this very hard to believe. That either country would allow such an attack to continue is unconscionable.
I agree. Plenty of countries have missed terrorist attacks over the years
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Old Nov 14th 2023, 12:59 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Beoz
So who did those who attacked Israel work for? Not Hamas?

Again…I didn’t mention Hamas in my post.
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Old Nov 14th 2023, 7:16 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Again…I didn’t mention Hamas in my post.
Why not? Its a bit one way if you dont mention Hamas and the part they played. It doesnt really make sense to cook up conspiracy theory and not discuss how both sides play a role.
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Old Nov 15th 2023, 1:25 am
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

The IDF is at the Al Shifa Hospital. Given this is a war of propaganda this could be defining.

If the IDF find Hamas underneath using the sick as human shields, the propaganda war is done for Hamas. On the flipside, if the IDF find nothing, then its curtains in the propaganda war for Israel.
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Old Nov 15th 2023, 11:23 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl
I find this very hard to believe. That either country would allow such an attack to continue is unconscionable.
It's not without precedence in history.

If you want casus belli you simply let your enemy attack then you can retaliate without being accused of being the aggressor. It's just a variation of the false flag operation.

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Old Nov 15th 2023, 11:14 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

I used to work with a chap who believed that the CIA executed the 9/11 attacks.
If Israel had deliberately sanctioned the butchery of 1400 of their own citizens they would be dealing with internal terrorism and a completely fractured state for decades to come, if it was exposed. I don't think it's very likely that they knew what was going to happen.
Incompetence and chaos are often presented as conspiracy.
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Old Nov 16th 2023, 12:46 am
  #22  
 
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Beoz
The IDF is at the Al Shifa Hospital. Given this is a war of propaganda this could be defining.

If the IDF find Hamas underneath using the sick as human shields, the propaganda war is done for Hamas. On the flipside, if the IDF find nothing, then its curtains in the propaganda war for Israel.
The IDF reported finding firearms and missiles in the hospital basement.

Israel's supporters will believe that report. The Palestinians' supporters will declare the reports bogus and the evidence to have been planted. There won't be much movement between the supporters of either side.

At this point I assume the Israelis won't be leaving the Gaza strip until they have visited every hospital/ medical facility.

Last edited by Pulaski; Nov 16th 2023 at 12:49 am.
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Old Nov 17th 2023, 5:25 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Pulaski
The IDF reported finding firearms and missiles in the hospital basement.

Israel's supporters will believe that report. The Palestinians' supporters will declare the reports bogus and the evidence to have been planted. There won't be much movement between the supporters of either side.

At this point I assume the Israelis won't be leaving the Gaza strip until they have visited every hospital/ medical facility.
True

There was talk of the Israelis re-stocking the hospital. More propaganda
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Old Nov 17th 2023, 12:16 pm
  #24  
 
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Beoz
Its not clear to me what Hamas and their people stood to gain by attackinf Israel. Israel have always hit back 10 or 20 fold. Suggesting Israel was aware and almost sanctioned the hit makes sense, but why would Hamas agree to this. They will be wiped from existence and they surely know this.

Hamas and "the Palestinians" are not one and same. Hamas treated Palestinians abominably before these attacks on Israel and the subsequent retaliation. And if/when the Gazans are obliterated, Hamas will not be, both because they have their organisation in Qatar and other countries, and because you can seldom kill an idea militarily. Whatever is left of the Gazans will be a young, devastated, and even more bitter and angry crowd. - fomenting terrorism.

Hamas doesn't care in the slightest if all the inhabitants of Gaza are killed. Gazans are not "their people". On the contrary, it suits them just fine because Israel's response is creating a storm of international repudiation. That will weaken Israel far more than any invasion. Hamas cannot conquer the far-stronger Israel militarily - so the enmity and pressure on Israel that they have accomplished is a big victory for them. Unwittingly, the "pro-Palestinian" demos etc are helping Hamas in this goal.

So yes, Hamas has probably succeeded in scuppering the Saudi treaty, and also much more. Other countries that had recognised Israel as a state may yet derecognise them, and political and social divisions and disruption are being caused around the world. All of this is a gain for Hamas.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Nov 17th 2023 at 12:19 pm.
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Old Nov 17th 2023, 9:41 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by scotty9000
I used to work with a chap who believed that the CIA executed the 9/11 attacks.
If Israel had deliberately sanctioned the butchery of 1400 of their own citizens they would be dealing with internal terrorism and a completely fractured state for decades to come, if it was exposed. I don't think it's very likely that they knew what was going to happen.
Incompetence and chaos are often presented as conspiracy.
Agreed, I think some are way overthinking Israel's current motives, as much as Hamas' strategy. They (Israel) are plain pissed and are reacting like EVERYONE expected them to. Hamas are doing what they've always done, just this time they got away with a lot more due to intel failure (9/11 is perhaps a good parallel in this). It's just the same old in many ways.
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Old Nov 18th 2023, 4:15 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Exactly. If Israel succeeds it will secure the future of Biden and Netanyahu for the next few years. Not to mention giving Israel more land. Most politicians IMO couldn’t give a damn about human lives, what they want is power and $$$$$. At least Netanyahu’s son is safe and well in sunny Miami.
This really doesn't seem to be helping Genocide Joe. It's split a reasonable sized section of Democrat voting. Including both Jewish, Israelite supporting sections,who think he hasn't done enough, and American -Arabs who think he's done more than enough. He has been losing in polls to "generic Democrat".
I am amazed at the low profile of opposition to Biden from Democrats.in terms of running again.

Last edited by kimilseung; Nov 18th 2023 at 4:18 am.
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Old Nov 18th 2023, 4:57 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Hamas and "the Palestinians" are not one and same.
Point of order here : Beoz wrote Hamas and their people. Not Hamas and Palestinians. He wrote "their people" .

Another point of order : All have treated those of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank abominably.. Not least Israel & its extended cohorts . All. I just do not feel it right to mention one group over all other interested parties.

One further point of order perhaps: This is in the Barbie. Not the TIO nor the Trailer Park. The US is a huge smellystink in all of this and has been for 70 years. Not sure though this thread is the place to bring in US election stuff.
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Old Nov 18th 2023, 5:00 am
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Norm_uk
It's not without precedence in history.

If you want casus belli you simply let your enemy attack then you can retaliate without being accused of being the aggressor. It's just a variation of the false flag operation.
Yes. Absolutely.
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Old Nov 19th 2023, 10:26 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Hamas and "the Palestinians" are not one and same. Hamas treated Palestinians abominably before these attacks on Israel and the subsequent retaliation. And if/when the Gazans are obliterated, Hamas will not be, both because they have their organisation in Qatar and other countries, and because you can seldom kill an idea militarily. Whatever is left of the Gazans will be a young, devastated, and even more bitter and angry crowd. - fomenting terrorism.

Hamas doesn't care in the slightest if all the inhabitants of Gaza are killed. Gazans are not "their people". On the contrary, it suits them just fine because Israel's response is creating a storm of international repudiation. That will weaken Israel far more than any invasion. Hamas cannot conquer the far-stronger Israel militarily - so the enmity and pressure on Israel that they have accomplished is a big victory for them. Unwittingly, the "pro-Palestinian" demos etc are helping Hamas in this goal.

So yes, Hamas has probably succeeded in scuppering the Saudi treaty, and also much more. Other countries that had recognised Israel as a state may yet derecognise them, and political and social divisions and disruption are being caused around the world. All of this is a gain for Hamas.


I get the feeling Israel don't give too much of a care for international support unless it's from someone supplying arms.


I'm not sure what Hamas' goal is. Onviously obliteration of Israel which they have stated but thats unlikely.

And Israel as said it won't stop until Hamas is obliterated in Gaza.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 5:33 pm
  #30  
 
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Default Re: Israel Palestinian

Originally Posted by Beoz
.... I'm not sure what Hamas' goal is. Obviously obliteration of Israel which they have stated but thats unlikely. ...
That is precisely what what Hamas's goal is, and that is precisely why the Palestinians have walked away from every peace process since the late 1940's (of which there have been a number - maybe five, or seven, I don't recall off-hand) ..... the only acceptable solution to the Palestinians is "from the river to the sea", meaning no Israel, and no Jews living in the area between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean (at least not if they value their lives).
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