Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

I have indicated on several threads that the sort of people that vote for Trump, IKIP etc, are a product of a governmental system that gives not one shit about them until election time. These people get lambasted from pillar to post as bigoted, uneducated, ignorant etc etc, but there are no answers from the more left wing among us, just ridicule. So I'm going to put it another way, and remember this isn't actually me ;).

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

I'm working class, I have a moderate to low IQ and income, I've always been in work and I've always paid my taxes, never had any legal proceedings brought against me aside from a couple of speeding fines. Over the years I've seen my industry shrink, and mates put out of work, including myself at times. Now we've got floods of immigrants coming in to give us even more of a fight for the scarce enough jobs, and my government seems to simply ignore whatever I seem to say on the subject. A lifetime of doing the right thing has got me absolutely nowhere, something needs to change. Enoch said this would happen, I'm voting BNP, at least they speak my language, they have my interests at heart.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

Now then, my learned lefty friends, it is fairly obvious that you are intellectually, morally and spiritually superior to me. So instead of simply taking the piss and dismissing me as a racist, I would invite you to actually stand up and fulfill your intellectual, moral and spiritual obligation, and help me to make the morally correct decision based on actual facts, and show me the error of my ways. Belittling me isn't going to win you a new friend by the way.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11913878)

Actually, you will find that many of the people who will vote for Trump are highly educated and far from ignorant. As I do on a daily basis, speak to highly educated Americans, and non Americans living in America, and their reason for voting for Trump will be, a) Got to stop Hillary b) there is no one else to vote for.



Well you do need people to drive the taxi's, pay the universities the extra amounts that can be taxed, do the jobs where we can't find enough people locally, and of course "be nice to a few" fleeing from nasty areas of the world. Is this comment directed at the UK or Oz? Oz has a pretty good balance now IMHO.



Oh sorry ..... you weren't talking to me.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

I have indicated on several threads that the sort of people that vote for Trump, IKIP etc, are a product of a governmental system that gives not one shit about them until election time. These people get lambasted from pillar to post as bigoted, uneducated, ignorant etc etc, .

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

I'm working class, I have a moderate to low IQ and income, I've always been in work and I've always paid my taxes, never had any legal proceedings brought against me aside from a couple of speeding fines. Over the years I've seen my industry shrink, and mates put out of work, including myself at times. Now we've got floods of immigrants coming in to give us even more of a fight for the scarce enough jobs, and my government seems to simply ignore whatever I seem to say on the subject. A lifetime of doing the right thing has got me absolutely nowhere, something needs to change. Enoch said this would happen, I'm voting BNP, at least they speak my language, they have my interests at heart.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

Now then, my learned lefty (centralist) friends, it is fairly obvious that you are intellectually, morally and spiritually superior to me. So instead of simply taking the piss and dismissing me as a racist, I would invite you to actually stand up and fulfill your intellectual, moral and spiritual obligation, and help me to make the morally correct decision based on actual facts, and show me the error of my ways. Belittling me isn't going to win you a new friend by the way.

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 11913986)

Well, I made the decision to back out of these bunfights, since the rightwingers had no intention of listening (or talking sensibly). But since you ask so nicely, I'll go through where you go wrong.



The point is the failures in the political system, to which you allude, are a product of money running politics (and corrupting it). Businesses buy politicians and dictate policies which benefit them over the people you talk about. It's pretty obvious that the solution to that is NOT to put one of the people responsible for that corruption in charge - he's only going to be worse, since he cuts out the middle man to the pure heart of darkness.

He's also a bit of an idiot, and a salesman, but that's beside the point here.

If you were really one of these people, you'd vote for Sanders, since he really IS outside the establishment AND isn't obviously bought by big business. In addition his policies benefit people just like you.

So your average Trump voters has to have something else going on to select someone who is so counter to their best interests.



The world is harsh, and big business doesn't care about you. You are a replaceable, or discardable, cog. Therefore the right wing politicians they buy don't care about you either - except in so far as they need to fool you into voting for them every 4 years. Luckily....

If you want someone to address it, you HAVE to look towards the centre (social justice) or the left wing (workers first). There's no logical choice if you really have your self interest at heart. No right winger will ever give a stuff about you.

Oh, and if an immigrant can come to the country and take your job, you're not very good at it. A much bigger issue is the big business boss moving the work overseas, to take advantage of low wages. Immigrants are a red herring for ... No, he was cheaper. Taking advantage of low costs is something everybody does, not just big business


You support people like Trump because you have racist views, react to slogans, and because that drowns out good sense. You believe what he says because you don't do your duty in the democratic process and read up and research the issues. Above all, you look for simple solutions to complex problems - and get fooled as a result.

Take the time, do the work, question your personal biases, and don't think that democracy is a reality TV show.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11913863)

I have indicated on several threads that the sort of people that vote for Trump, IKIP etc, are a product of a governmental system that gives not one shit about them until election time. These people get lambasted from pillar to post as bigoted, uneducated, ignorant etc etc, but there are no answers from the more left wing among us, just ridicule. So I'm going to put it another way, and remember this isn't actually me ;).

I'm working class, I have a moderate to low IQ and income, I've always been in work and I've always paid my taxes, never had any legal proceedings brought against me aside from a couple of speeding fines. Over the years I've seen my industry shrink, and mates put out of work, including myself at times. Now we've got floods of immigrants coming in to give us even more of a fight for the scarce enough jobs, and my government seems to simply ignore whatever I seem to say on the subject. A lifetime of doing the right thing has got me absolutely nowhere, something needs to change. Enoch said this would happen, I'm voting BNP, at least they speak my language, they have my interests at heart.

Now then, my learned lefty friends, it is fairly obvious that you are intellectually, morally and spiritually superior to me. So instead of simply taking the piss and dismissing me as a racist, I would invite you to actually stand up and fulfill your intellectual, moral and spiritual obligation, and help me to make the morally correct decision based on actual facts, and show me the error of my ways. Belittling me isn't going to win you a new friend by the way.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11914019)

Also, on the caring about me front, I'm 48 years old, not a single government I've lived under has given a shit about me, it's not a right wing reserve.

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 11913986)

You support people like Trump because you have racist views

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11914033)

Seriously?

You really need to get over yourself

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11914029)

Spot on. In reality it would be better if we all lived at the centre and governments governed for all their people. But alas, in much of the west, decades of left-wing rule, PC'ness, multiculturalism etc have left much of the host population behind and most of these people are white, working and middle-class. The socialist, anti-west intellectual elites have tried to social engineer societies in such a way so as to enhance end entrench their position - and to a large extent have been successful at this. Just look at the breakdown of western norms, standards, culture and family units. As a response to this you see the rise of the right - be it Pegida, Wilders, Trump, UKIP etc. These factions resonate with large section of western populations and they are only going to get stronger and more influential. maybe even gaining power and the left will be to blame. Lessons from history have not been learnt - and the consequences could be dire

I wouldn't vote for Trump as he is not right-wing enough but I can understand why he is popular

The times they are a changing

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11914031)

So that's the question. Do you continue to put faith in governments that pretend to make it all about you you you, so the takers in this world can sing me me me? The way the trend is going the free hand out is evaporating so it looks like backing that horse is a bad bet.

OR

Do you see through the crap and say to yourself "I want a government that is NOT going to penalise me for standing on my own 2 feet and having a go and rewards those who don't"

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11914033)

Seriously?

You really need to get over yourself

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11914048)

As I mentioned, I speak to people in the US on a daily basis who are going to vote for Trump, not because they really like him, but because there is no one else with the centralist views they crave. All are well educated, come from a variety of social and racial backgrounds, and none are racist in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 11914029)

I wouldn't vote for Trump as he is not right-wing enough but I can understand why he is popular