How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Jul 23rd 2018, 3:08 am
#16
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Doesn't affect me as I don't drive, but I work for a large government department Outdoor car park of maybe 100 spaces, always full, mostly with government cars that never move. At least 50% of staff park in the surrounding streets and many of them drive 1.5-2 hours to work.
Its the government. They aren't going to give us free electric to recharge cars (nor would I expect them to).
So I'm vaguely interested in- how log would the power stored in one of these cars last for? As no-one will be able to charge a car at our workplace, they will need at least 4 hours of power just to get them to work and home again. Does one of these cars store that much? Many staff are shift workers leaving at unusual hours - is the idea that they have to stop in some garage somewhere for an hour or so at 2am while the car recharges?
Its the government. They aren't going to give us free electric to recharge cars (nor would I expect them to).
So I'm vaguely interested in- how log would the power stored in one of these cars last for? As no-one will be able to charge a car at our workplace, they will need at least 4 hours of power just to get them to work and home again. Does one of these cars store that much? Many staff are shift workers leaving at unusual hours - is the idea that they have to stop in some garage somewhere for an hour or so at 2am while the car recharges?
If anyone there is interested, get them to look at this. Almost 100pct guaranteed to do the commute you describe.
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au...outlander-phev
The charging at work scenario would be a bonus more than an expectation, but where it is possible expect people to take up the opportunity. We'd get away with it at our place on night shift for instance...for a while. I'd guess once 4 or more people were regularly taking advantage, they'd kick up.
.
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Jul 23rd 2018 at 3:26 am.
Jul 23rd 2018, 3:18 am
#17
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Possibly best suited to Phev's in that scenario, which are the plug in hybrids
One thing I did think of but didn't mention, with the rise of robotaxis I wouldn't be surprised to see electric bikes do much better for the short journeys. A hub motor, fold up bike, and battery pack getting better and lighter as R&D comes along; for the 10km type stuff it would make sense (if they could get the rules and regs out of the way).
Jul 23rd 2018, 3:43 am
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Worth noting that an ICE has about 2000 moving parts, and an EV about 20. I think it's very likely that hybrids will die away as autonomous and EV production gears up - just from complexity and reliability.
One thing I did think of but didn't mention, with the rise of robotaxis I wouldn't be surprised to see electric bikes do much better for the short journeys. A hub motor, fold up bike, and battery pack getting better and lighter as R&D comes along; for the 10km type stuff it would make sense (if they could get the rules and regs out of the way).
One thing I did think of but didn't mention, with the rise of robotaxis I wouldn't be surprised to see electric bikes do much better for the short journeys. A hub motor, fold up bike, and battery pack getting better and lighter as R&D comes along; for the 10km type stuff it would make sense (if they could get the rules and regs out of the way).
Fold up scooter
This start up in the US are using Xiaomi's
https://www.bird.co/
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Jul 23rd 2018 at 3:47 am.
Jul 23rd 2018, 3:53 am
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Worth noting that an ICE has about 2000 moving parts, and an EV about 20. I think it's very likely that hybrids will die away as autonomous and EV production gears up - just from complexity and reliability.
One thing I did think of but didn't mention, with the rise of robotaxis I wouldn't be surprised to see electric bikes do much better for the short journeys. A hub motor, fold up bike, and battery pack getting better and lighter as R&D comes along; for the 10km type stuff it would make sense (if they could get the rules and regs out of the way).
One thing I did think of but didn't mention, with the rise of robotaxis I wouldn't be surprised to see electric bikes do much better for the short journeys. A hub motor, fold up bike, and battery pack getting better and lighter as R&D comes along; for the 10km type stuff it would make sense (if they could get the rules and regs out of the way).
I'd agree, it's the timeline we are at slight odds over. These EV's are being rolled out big time at the end of this year and will reach fever pitch by 2020. I'm anticipating personally that Autonomous is at least 25 years away. I hope I'm wrong, I just expect a lot of resistance to it in western society. Whereas the EV's are such a cost saver that people are bound to jump on board.
I reckon Tesla will go under..... It's already happening, and Didi will take over what Tesla started.
I'd love to buy shares in Didi actually, anyone know how to do it?
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Jul 23rd 2018 at 3:57 am.
Jul 23rd 2018, 3:58 am
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Melbourne CBD has plenty of multi-storey carparks, and onstreet parking in the CBD. My guess is most will go as autonomous vehicles take off - the multistories to another 30 storey office block, and the onstreet to wider routes and drop offs for autonomous vehicles. Personally I'd kick the trams too, but I'm sure someone will complain that they are historic.
The Collins street tram is quite efficient. I used to go back and forth from the Paris end to the New York end in a taxi until one day, a nice taxi driver told me I was such a tourist and use the tram. I haven't looked back.
Jul 24th 2018, 2:41 am
#21
Mostly Harmless
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Semi-rural wonderworld, Brisbane
Posts: 15,109
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
I already have one.
Just need to refresh the AA batteries in the remote and charge it up.
Just need to refresh the AA batteries in the remote and charge it up.
Jul 24th 2018, 11:47 pm
#22
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,735
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Most people will charge at home and the vast majority of people won't need those onroad charging stations.
It costs currently about 6 AUD to fully charge an electric vehicle for that 350 miles of range. I think people will forgo the free charging option for the convenience of filling up at home.... or at other peoples houses or workplaces even. A 10amp normal household connection takes about 12 hours to charge a vehicle and a 15Amp (Oven/Airconditioner type outlet) about 8 hours.... overnight in other words.
This is coinciding with houses becoming more self-sufficient with Solar and batteries at home. So once most people have solar connected in say 15 years time, the cost to fill one's car will be negligible.
Currently, 1 in 5 Australian households has Solar connected to their households, which is the highest ratio in the world.
It costs currently about 6 AUD to fully charge an electric vehicle for that 350 miles of range. I think people will forgo the free charging option for the convenience of filling up at home.... or at other peoples houses or workplaces even. A 10amp normal household connection takes about 12 hours to charge a vehicle and a 15Amp (Oven/Airconditioner type outlet) about 8 hours.... overnight in other words.
This is coinciding with houses becoming more self-sufficient with Solar and batteries at home. So once most people have solar connected in say 15 years time, the cost to fill one's car will be negligible.
Currently, 1 in 5 Australian households has Solar connected to their households, which is the highest ratio in the world.
I think that I will keep my current car for a couple more years - hopefully in that time public infrastructure will be significantly better.
S
Jul 25th 2018, 4:44 am
#23
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
I was in Japan until Sunday. In Ginza, there is a Nissan showroom where they show off their latest models and concept cars - a very cool place. They had the brand new Nissan leaf on display and it is a very nice car. One of their staff helped me look over it and she was telling me that this new model has a range of about 450kms and that an update due later this year will extend this to close to 500kms - impressive. She knew what she was talking about so I asked her about using the air-conditioner on a day like that day (it was stupid hot and humid) and its effect on range. She got cagey and said that the range would be reduced but didn't know by how much. There's the problem. These theoretical ranges are fine on a cool day on flat roads with minimal stops and starts but when you start throwing in hills, headlights, hot and cold weather, wind, city driving etc, range gets smashed. I'm of the opinion that EVs are fine for a daily commute (say out to 150kms return) and a charge overnight at home, but anything beyond that is at least 10 years away
The electrics are gettting better all of the time, as are the batteries, but I think that the real breakthrough will come when the next generation, non-lithium batteries become mainstream. Lithium is a transition technology IMO
I think the best bet for increased economy in the foreseeable future is advanced PHEV. This technology is getting very good and is deployable right now. Don't write off very advanced IC engines either - the effects of increasing fuel efficiency are profound. I did an MBA energy economics assignment on it at uni and it was really eye-opening researching the topic
The electrics are gettting better all of the time, as are the batteries, but I think that the real breakthrough will come when the next generation, non-lithium batteries become mainstream. Lithium is a transition technology IMO
I think the best bet for increased economy in the foreseeable future is advanced PHEV. This technology is getting very good and is deployable right now. Don't write off very advanced IC engines either - the effects of increasing fuel efficiency are profound. I did an MBA energy economics assignment on it at uni and it was really eye-opening researching the topic
Jul 25th 2018, 5:30 am
#24
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
I was in Japan until Sunday. In Ginza, there is a Nissan showroom where they show off their latest models and concept cars - a very cool place. They had the brand new Nissan leaf on display and it is a very nice car. One of their staff helped me look over it and she was telling me that this new model has a range of about 450kms and that an update due later this year will extend this to close to 500kms - impressive. She knew what she was talking about so I asked her about using the air-conditioner on a day like that day (it was stupid hot and humid) and its effect on range. She got cagey and said that the range would be reduced but didn't know by how much. There's the problem. These theoretical ranges are fine on a cool day on flat roads with minimal stops and starts but when you start throwing in hills, headlights, hot and cold weather, wind, city driving etc, range gets smashed. I'm of the opinion that EVs are fine for a daily commute (say out to 150kms return) and a charge overnight at home, but anything beyond that is at least 10 years away
The electrics are gettting better all of the time, as are the batteries, but I think that the real breakthrough will come when the next generation, non-lithium batteries become mainstream. Lithium is a transition technology IMO
I think the best bet for increased economy in the foreseeable future is advanced PHEV. This technology is getting very good and is deployable right now. Don't write off very advanced IC engines either - the effects of increasing fuel efficiency are profound. I did an MBA energy economics assignment on it at uni and it was really eye-opening researching the topic
The electrics are gettting better all of the time, as are the batteries, but I think that the real breakthrough will come when the next generation, non-lithium batteries become mainstream. Lithium is a transition technology IMO
I think the best bet for increased economy in the foreseeable future is advanced PHEV. This technology is getting very good and is deployable right now. Don't write off very advanced IC engines either - the effects of increasing fuel efficiency are profound. I did an MBA energy economics assignment on it at uni and it was really eye-opening researching the topic
Having looked very closely at this technology for the last 2 years or so, I honestly believe that if you want to get into Electric Vehicles then you need to start off with the PHEVs the plug-in Hybrids, where your daily commute will be fully electric and when unforeseen circumstances or a different type of trip comes along the engine comes into play. That would cover the hot days when you have to use air con etc or the unusual long trip where you fancy a trip to Albany for a week or something. They are basically fully electric with an inbuilt generator/small motor.
I also believe that fully electric cars are definitely more suited to the Robotaxi industry, which is god knows how long off. I can't see it within the next 15 years, more like 25 years by the time legislators and the road authorties get their crap together. Maybe Uber and Didi will use Electric cars with drivers doing hardly any driving, save for charging and swapping cars in the next 5 years or so though.
Jul 25th 2018, 8:22 am
#25
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Having looked very closely at this technology for the last 2 years or so, I honestly believe that if you want to get into Electric Vehicles then you need to start off with the PHEVs the plug-in Hybrids, where your daily commute will be fully electric and when unforeseen circumstances or a different type of trip comes along the engine comes into play. That would cover the hot days when you have to use air con etc or the unusual long trip where you fancy a trip to Albany for a week or something. They are basically fully electric with an inbuilt generator/small motor.
I also believe that fully electric cars are definitely more suited to the Robotaxi industry, which is god knows how long off. I can't see it within the next 15 years, more like 25 years by the time legislators and the road authorties get their crap together. Maybe Uber and Didi will use Electric cars with drivers doing hardly any driving, save for charging and swapping cars in the next 5 years or so though.
I also believe that fully electric cars are definitely more suited to the Robotaxi industry, which is god knows how long off. I can't see it within the next 15 years, more like 25 years by the time legislators and the road authorties get their crap together. Maybe Uber and Didi will use Electric cars with drivers doing hardly any driving, save for charging and swapping cars in the next 5 years or so though.
Robotaxis have a role that's for sure but don't underestimate people's desire to own their own car. I have owned cars since I was 18 - and that will never change. Countless others think the same
Jul 25th 2018, 12:03 pm
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Jul 25th 2018, 12:23 pm
#27
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
This will only be affordable in the US though
Jul 25th 2018, 1:44 pm
#29
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.
Jul 26th 2018, 1:50 am
#30
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: How long before you buy your first Electric Vehicle.