Amazulu

Beoz

Yes, I can't see how your grievances about career progression is related to Australia. I have seen career blocking Germans and Dutch as well.

Maybe start a new thread on career progression/bad management but also maybe work through one of these - https://au.indeed.com/career-advice/...velopment-plan

Its always good to get your goals out in the open. It helps you to understand how to best circumvent the blockers, which may be management or other forces.

the troubadour

I doubt if you see much at all. Best leave out things in countries you know nothing about let alone seen. But regardless of too often exceptionally poor management in the Australian context, this thread is about How Australian Do you Feel?
Now i wonder about you. Pushing so hard in support of turbo migration, regardless of outcomes, outside of vibrancy.
That alone suggests you would be happier elsewhere or at the very least, to 'get out' and experience a bit of the world away from the normal daily mundane.

Beoz

Don't worry, my company used to be headquartered in the Netherlands until the Irish offered better company benefits. I know all about Dutch management. I also spent many years working under German management in London before that.

I would get out and experience a bit if I could. Sadly my August Adriatic trip got COVID canned. Fortunately I had a European holiday in January thanks.

Australian management is fine. You get good, you get bad. Its all down to how you respond to it.

the troubadour

Yes the Irish 'sold out' (little to no tax) during the Celtic boom to encourage parasitic companies to relocate. It all contributed top the huge downturn experienced later, but not the discussion.
My Euro / USA/ Canadian holls thrashed as well. The way the dice rolls I'm afraid. But the chance may return for you to get out and experience the world.

No Australian management is hardly fine. I have countless examples, but you stay with what you believe. It would be' unbelievably challenging' for many French/Dutch/German
heads/boards to witness, even if they are far from being without blemish, there appears to be more questioning and critique which in itself forces accountability and usually a greater degree of transparency.

Beoz

Looks like we have come to a stalemate. I think there are good Australian management and some bad. You think it's bad right across the board. That's quite a blanket offering.

the troubadour

You do like to take things to the extremity. Obviously there must be reasonably well run Australian companies, just as there likely be in most corners of the world. It is obviously not a blanket claim. I can only go on from experience,
or that of others. But i do think that too often the 'poor quality' of boards and much of business gets away with things, less likely in a more sophisticated market for want of another description.
So much flies under the radar and is not picked up on, or if then at a late stage . A lot of dishonesty or at best denial but as with so much in Australia so much luck, until that feature ebb's away.

Other nation's mentioned greater chance bad practice would be called out earlier.

BadgeIsBack

I see you are still somewhat disillusioned my friend...are you really tied here? Have you been back to Germany recently?

BadgeIsBack

So true. I'm always suspicious of workers where people claim to have spent all their years with poor managers; yet won't step up themselves..

the troubadour

You can put your suspicions to rest . Contrary I'm more suspicious of those too blinkered to spot the obvious. Every chance being the reason you are part of the problem. As for 'stepping up''
what exactly do you infer? Have been part of the system that is responsible for the resulting impacts of bad policy and poor management.

the troubadour

Stating a simple fact. Why would I have gone back to Germany recently? May just as well be a host of countries. Not disillusioned. Well not about that anyway. Now if the conversation is around the abuse and corruption with the use of meth ice, then very much so. I am well aware of how things work. Done anything interesting yourself?
If supporting poor management practice make you 'feel Australian" then so be it.

BadgeIsBack

Nothing to do with feeling Australian! I can't believe you would tar all with the same brush.
I spend a lot of my time encouraging good decisions, right time right place without unnecessary crap. I come from a background many years ago where there was some very stringent mgmt controls for good reason - I water these down and make them fit for purpose dependent on need, observing current practise. In fact, I have become quite a specialist in looking at the big picture, if you like, then making decisions on smaller things that benefit all - so also mentoring leads. Some get caught up in process for process's sake- I see the need to step in recommend, get as technical as I have to do - down to the detail (where I'd rather not at times) - then backoff.

It's also worth remembering that mgmt is inherently complex- and many managers are 'battling' 'lack' of staff - or infact workers who simply won't do things the best way, or won't work smart. My experience is that most people are average at their jobs. To err is to be human.If managers had all the resourcing they needed the company would go bust - with the wage demand - there is an intention that you run a bit lean at times, really.

And yourself? What is your contribution to inspiring, leading and mentoring others? If it's the meth / addiction arena then good for you. I do know people who work in those areas and others.

the troubadour

Nothing to do at all and it came up by way of responding to another post as in the way a thread is often 'sidetracked'. But while on the subject of Australian management, I recall from a post several years back from yourself, that little has changed in the feeling of need to defend the somewhat poor state that passes as management in many areas. I have no idea if your claimed role is a part of the problem or helping to arrive at a solution. What i do know is have crossed numerous Boards along with CEO's who are clueless leaving chaos at worst and total disenchantment at best .

One example being when The Board took over running of an organization sacking the CEO at great expense, employing a manager in place, who in turn employed totally inadequate sub managers , to which that organization is attempting to rid themselves off to this year. (Original manager got rid off through substantial payout , original Board head after spending all reserves on legal actions against previous management and worker sacking or reduction in rights, left with no negative mark to undertake a far greater inflated role within the Health Department .

I am reasonably certain that fellow , not to much unlike yourself, from the sound of it, are sidetracked with an over estimation of their abilities which leads to the confusion amounting to poor management decisions . The clue lays in the wording leading and mentoring others. One may well be in a position of 'leadership' and claim' mentoring ' while not having a clue. Hiding behind a role is too often found the home of the psychopath. (not suggesting you are obviously, just attractive roles for those with such disorders)
A lot of for example non profit agencies are run extremely poorly. Somewhat of a revolving door in staff and management comings and goings. Same for local government. But can name others.

I note you did not address why i should go to Germany? Thing is being a Dinky dye, true blue Aussie, I have even more right at indignation at matters that make me 'feel Un Australian'. The declining state of the work place being one such reason, as well as increasing 'servitude' nature of people un willing to speak out or in too much angst to do so.
As for your somewhat patronizing comments around the scourge of meth ice and the serious repercussions within society, no I do not work in the area, but took it upon myself, to raise awareness of the neighborhood, after a less than satisfactory response from authorities, at some risk to self, that resulted in time in the closure of a meth ice production house.
A shame another locality will have to put up with what eventuated in my area , but until people demand accountability from their local government and protectors little will change. In fact, like so much it will get a whole lot worse.

Zig Zag Wanderer

Hey, when I was trying to get permenant residency (took 10 years cos the wife is disabled), I told them I was actually Australian, just born in the wrong country! I actually feel that way.

I only go back to the UK to see rellies and remind myself how miserable the country is

BadgeIsBack

Years ago, on this forum, you would have been taken to task for saying that by the UK lovers/ Au haters... the English do complain about their place in the world and have done for decades.
In lockdown, I have been looking at Facebook groups and they are full of older middle-aged English people moaning - I think now the English have a sort of disease about their place in the world - have always had since we withdrew East of Suez (!) lol - joke.

With reflection, there is a lot of average people in the UK muddling along in routine lives..some of the AU haters probably had more advantages in the UK - they lived in areas of outstanding beauty in Grade 2 listed houses.
Easy to be smug for them.

What I've noticed over the years is that my peers are all doing well in the UK - only they are still holed up in little houses - and some of them are still in some ways quite insular - even by London and the SE standards. They take their pleasures where they can - small excursions to the continent or to AllBarOne / Weatherspoons. (Apparently, the pubs are dying...)

I think one of the things about Australian life is that you can live within say 15-20k of a capital city and live a very nice lifestyle that would be very wealthy by world standards.