Holden to pull out of Australia
Dec 8th 2013, 10:06 pm
#61
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Here another "straw" for you.... 
These submarines are so unsafe, that the crew mutiny rather than sail in them and they are not even allowed to enter UK commercial ports.
( Long since banned from visiting foreign ports ).
http://www.disarmsecure.org/publicat...Submarines.php
Jeeze mate. As a mere colonial I can only gaze in wonderment at the advanced state of your countries technology.
I hope you have a palliass cover at home, you'll soon have enough 'straws' for a bloody mattress
These submarines are so unsafe, that the crew mutiny rather than sail in them and they are not even allowed to enter UK commercial ports.
( Long since banned from visiting foreign ports ).
http://www.disarmsecure.org/publicat...Submarines.php
Jeeze mate. As a mere colonial I can only gaze in wonderment at the advanced state of your countries technology.
I hope you have a palliass cover at home, you'll soon have enough 'straws' for a bloody mattress
In fairness, the Trafalgars are pretty old in terms of technology now - the last ship was commissioned before the end of the Cold War. Its replacement - The Astute class - looks to be a much more competent ship, with better reactor and weapons platform capabilities.
S
Dec 8th 2013, 10:42 pm
#62
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
MBA decision making + tacit knowledge base + highly complex systems = screwups.
Pretty much the same can be said for ASC.
Dec 8th 2013, 11:31 pm
#63
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
It's certainly not perfect - but it does seem to be better than Trafalgar. I do agree though - anything that BAE get near seems to end in tears.
Submarines are by their very nature difficult contraptions - nuclear ones particularly - which is why I think that Australia needs to be pragmatic and order some modified off the shelf models rather than starting from the bottom up again.
S
Dec 9th 2013, 1:17 am
#64
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
It's certainly not perfect - but it does seem to be better than Trafalgar. I do agree though - anything that BAE get near seems to end in tears.
Submarines are by their very nature difficult contraptions - nuclear ones particularly - which is why I think that Australia needs to be pragmatic and order some modified off the shelf models rather than starting from the bottom up again.
S
Submarines are by their very nature difficult contraptions - nuclear ones particularly - which is why I think that Australia needs to be pragmatic and order some modified off the shelf models rather than starting from the bottom up again.
S
Australia should go for nukes, and the Virginia-class option is the best value. Someone posted a link on here a while back for German designed, large diesel-electric boat that has been specifically designed for the naval requirements of Australia, Canada, India. This would be the next best option. We could take this design and build them here
Australia with 12 Virginia SSNs would be a major regional force
Dec 9th 2013, 1:51 am
#65
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Something a bit more modern for you - the Upholder-class
4 diesel-electric boats built in the late '90s, early '90s for the Royal Navy
They had lots of problems (couldn't fire torpedoes etc), only served a few years and were mothballed
Canada bought them and thought that they had got a bargain........
One of them caught fire
They've had to spend a fortune putting them right
4 diesel-electric boats built in the late '90s, early '90s for the Royal Navy
They had lots of problems (couldn't fire torpedoes etc), only served a few years and were mothballed
Canada bought them and thought that they had got a bargain........
One of them caught fire
They've had to spend a fortune putting them right
Dec 9th 2013, 2:02 am
#66
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Astute looks really good - probably the best nukes the UK has built. There are a lot of good subs in the world but from what I've read, Astute's sensor suite is the best there is and the UK makes the best torpedoes. Pity they didn't go for a VLS setup for their TLAMs
Australia should go for nukes, and the Virginia-class option is the best value. Someone posted a link on here a while back for German designed, large diesel-electric boat that has been specifically designed for the naval requirements of Australia, Canada, India. This would be the next best option. We could take this design and build them here
Australia with 12 Virginia SSNs would be a major regional force
Australia should go for nukes, and the Virginia-class option is the best value. Someone posted a link on here a while back for German designed, large diesel-electric boat that has been specifically designed for the naval requirements of Australia, Canada, India. This would be the next best option. We could take this design and build them here
Australia with 12 Virginia SSNs would be a major regional force
Yup. Th modified Dolphin - I think it may have even been me that posted it. The last Dolphin batch sold to South Africa went for about $235m a unit, where the Collins 2 is projected to cost upwards of $1.4bn a piece.
The Maths really is not hard is it...
S
Dec 9th 2013, 4:58 am
#67
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Attended a reception a few months back onboard HMS Daring when it docked in Melbourne for a quick paint job before heading on to Sydney for the fleet review. Don't know much about military ships but it seemed like a very high tech piece of kit. They put on a lovely spread as well and the G&T's were bloody strong.
Dec 9th 2013, 6:24 am
#68
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Attended a reception a few months back onboard HMS Daring when it docked in Melbourne for a quick paint job before heading on to Sydney for the fleet review. Don't know much about military ships but it seemed like a very high tech piece of kit. They put on a lovely spread as well and the G&T's were bloody strong.
Having to send your warships 10,000 miles to get a paint job in a foreign country would put a dint in anyone's sense of national pride
Glad to hear the G&T's were to your taste......Gordon's or domestic ?
Dec 9th 2013, 6:54 am
#69
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Beafeater old boy Beafeater....
Dec 9th 2013, 7:31 am
#71
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Personally, I think that Indonesia rates as a greater threat in the medium to long term than China - they have been driving a significant military spend over the last decade, and is finally starting to emerge as a major regional power - one that may eventually challenge Australia's position as regional superpower.
Indo's military focus is definitely shifting, from essentially a huge internal police force to something that is able to project significantly more power about the region. SBY last year was quoted as saying that Indonesia needed to become more powerful militarily than its neighbours, and its recent military purchases betray this push. Buying stacks of SU-30 and SU-35s aircaft, giving Indonesia a very powerful air presence indeed.
Additionally, we also need to be seen to be a good neighbour - one that will come galloping to the rescue is the Chinese do start expanding through Asia. This won't be taken seriously with the Collins - we're lucky if we can keep one out on patrol at any time - despite their reasonably good record in exercises, their maintenance, reliability and staffing issues make them something of a white elephant.
S
Indo's military focus is definitely shifting, from essentially a huge internal police force to something that is able to project significantly more power about the region. SBY last year was quoted as saying that Indonesia needed to become more powerful militarily than its neighbours, and its recent military purchases betray this push. Buying stacks of SU-30 and SU-35s aircaft, giving Indonesia a very powerful air presence indeed.
Additionally, we also need to be seen to be a good neighbour - one that will come galloping to the rescue is the Chinese do start expanding through Asia. This won't be taken seriously with the Collins - we're lucky if we can keep one out on patrol at any time - despite their reasonably good record in exercises, their maintenance, reliability and staffing issues make them something of a white elephant.
S
Dec 9th 2013, 7:34 am
#72
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Getting back to the subject the most fanciful plan I have heard is once GM pull out the Government should take over the plants and design and build a totally Australian car to secure jobs. Where do people get this stuff 
Dec 9th 2013, 8:00 am
#73
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Personally, I think that Indonesia rates as a greater threat in the medium to long term than China - they have been driving a significant military spend over the last decade, and is finally starting to emerge as a major regional power - one that may eventually challenge Australia's position as regional superpower.
Indo's military focus is definitely shifting, from essentially a huge internal police force to something that is able to project significantly more power about the region. SBY last year was quoted as saying that Indonesia needed to become more powerful militarily than its neighbours, and its recent military purchases betray this push. Buying stacks of SU-30 and SU-35s aircaft, giving Indonesia a very powerful air presence indeed.
Additionally, we also need to be seen to be a good neighbour - one that will come galloping to the rescue is the Chinese do start expanding through Asia. This won't be taken seriously with the Collins - we're lucky if we can keep one out on patrol at any time - despite their reasonably good record in exercises, their maintenance, reliability and staffing issues make them something of a white elephant.
S
Indo's military focus is definitely shifting, from essentially a huge internal police force to something that is able to project significantly more power about the region. SBY last year was quoted as saying that Indonesia needed to become more powerful militarily than its neighbours, and its recent military purchases betray this push. Buying stacks of SU-30 and SU-35s aircaft, giving Indonesia a very powerful air presence indeed.
Additionally, we also need to be seen to be a good neighbour - one that will come galloping to the rescue is the Chinese do start expanding through Asia. This won't be taken seriously with the Collins - we're lucky if we can keep one out on patrol at any time - despite their reasonably good record in exercises, their maintenance, reliability and staffing issues make them something of a white elephant.
S
Range would be a problem for both countries (which is why the F-111 was such a regional threat - most of Indonesia was in it's range) but favours us - apart from a few exceptions, what they need to hit is too far south (not unless they want to bomb the US Marines in Darwin.....)
We have good tankers too and our AWACS and EW capabilities are far superior to theirs
Also in any future standoff, they are not the only ones who could build up their military. We ain't exactly poor
Any attempted naval landing, apart from the most tiny of forces, would be suicide for them
This ain't going to happen anyway. The US is making big efforts to get Indonesia on side (hence the F-16s) - and it's working. Any future militantly Islamic Indonesia is going to have many more enemies than just Australia
Dec 9th 2013, 8:15 am
#74
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Toyota have said they need to cut the cost of building a car in Australia by a massive $3800 which is a huge amount of money. The problem apparently is out dated uncompetitive work practices and allowances. I think what we are seeing is workers are finding out you cant ride the gravy train indefinitely.
Dec 9th 2013, 8:37 am
#75
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Re: Holden to pull out of Australia
Toyota have said they need to cut the cost of building a car in Australia by a massive $3800 which is a huge amount of money. The problem apparently is out dated uncompetitive work practices and allowances. I think what we are seeing is workers are finding out you cant ride the gravy train indefinitely.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23655605